elliseamos wrote:i don't see how either of these songs could have fit on avocado or backspacer. riot act maybe. lightning bolt hopefully.
You've not heard the other b-sides. There's probably enough good ones to make a decent EP, if not album. The inclusion of any of them might've made a different but equally cohesive album.
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
Cold Confession is almost being given a reggae groove by Matt and Jeff. Love it.
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
Tuolumne wrote:If the last 2 slbums were full of songs like these I believe the "hardcores" - those that travel for a dozen shows a tour would be more on board with them. The less hardcore would have completely dropped off the band. They'd be 3 or 4 lines down on a major festival poster and the general music listening public (I'm talking like Stereogum or Consequence of Sound readers, people who go to music festivals) would have written them off and they would be looking at a career like where John Mellencamp, Jackson Browne, Black Crowes or Los Lobos are right now. Not a bad thing, but people would be whining about why they're stuck in this lot instead of conquering fesitvals. My comments here are not about commercial success, but about relevance, two different things.
seriously, who gives a shit about any of this?
People do. I do. They're going for the mid-tier PJ fan, who are worthy PJ fans. I know I'm a "fanboy" defender on here, but I've gone to a dozen shows, have never traveled to see them. In my mind, I'm a hardcore fan, but nothing like some people. I think there's a certain breed of music lover they want to connect to in the modern era. Not everyone can be pleased and can be on board. I'm using "festival headliner" not in some kind of commercially competitive way, but as a benchmark for what sort of fans might be exposed and could dig the music. Those fans would probably shy away from posting around here and probably only go to shows when they're in town, but they're still fans who love music.
The point is that I - and many music fans - don't really give a shit about any fan demographics beyond how the intensity of the band's considerations of such things impacts their songwriting. Fixating on precisely these extra-compositional issues prevents Pearl Jam from keeping their collective eyes on the ball, and - as evidenced by these releases - the music is the poorer for it.
I think there is a difference between writing songs that you think are going to be popular, and writing songs that you think will be fun to play live. I think pearl jam has definitely moved in the later direction. It's not always a good thing, but there is still (I think) an important distinction to be made here.
I think the point is, they shouldn't be letting the though of how it will be played live, or how it will affect a certain demographic, even enter their mind when creating new music. They should just create the music, and let what happens happen.
oh I get that point. My point is just that wanting to write music that caters to/help reproduces an experience you want is legit. I'm not saying it is what I'd prefer (I'm not sure--I tend to like the 'what will play well live approach, but I think I'd be happy either way), but it is totally legit. It is following a different muse.
Guys, I was under the impression the song's name was Cold Concession. I like that title a lot better. Where did we get "Confession"? From that Italian site? They don't even speak English.
Anders wrote:I do not have a «neoliberal assessment of geopolitics», so please stop writing that I do.
elliseamos wrote:i don't see how either of these songs could have fit on avocado or backspacer. riot act maybe. lightning bolt hopefully.
Its not really about them fitting on an album. Inevitably, most of the other songs on ST or BS would have probably sounded very different if they had gone in the direction they were going in with these songs. The Fixer would have probably been a lot closer to the demo, for example.
stip wrote:
Different strokes, but that's a legit position that Tuolumne is articulating. Michael Stipe, for instance, used to introduce Losing My Religion by saying 'this is your song--we just cover it'. It's focusing on the shared experience of the art, rather than the art in isolation.
Yeah, but I don't think Michael Stipe's inspiration for writing Losing My Religion sprung out of "what will the festival crowds like?"
no, but at the same time accelerate, which is a marvelous album, was clearly influenced by the experience of playing them for an audience and seeing what worked and what didn't.
theplatypus wrote:Guys, I was under the impression the song's name was Cold Concession. I like that title a lot better. Where did we get "Confession"? From that Italian site? They don't even speak English.
Im still going with Concession but Ed does say "Confession" in the song...
theplatypus wrote:Guys, I was under the impression the song's name was Cold Concession. I like that title a lot better. Where did we get "Confession"? From that Italian site? They don't even speak English.
I agree. Pretty sure Jeff was quoted more than once saying "Concession."
theplatypus wrote:Guys, I was under the impression the song's name was Cold Concession. I like that title a lot better. Where did we get "Confession"? From that Italian site? They don't even speak English.
Doesn't Ed say it in the song?
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
Tuolumne wrote: To connect to fans is not an artistic approach?
that sounds like the polar opposite of art.
dont artists make art with the intention of it causing a reaction?
Within themselves...
so why do they release it to the public?
You'd have to ask them but do you really think the best art is made with the sole intention of soliciting yeah yeah yeahs from the audience?
I know I keep bringing up Neil, and maybe its unfair, but artists like him, dylan etc... Do not make art for the sake of pleasing a fan base. They make their art for themselves and if lucky - fans will grab onto it. If not? They dont give a shit and they keep soldiering on their own path.
yeah, thats unfair, stop comparing them to neil young.
When they stop harping on about Uncle Neil and all theyve learned from him...
I will...
it is unfair--you really need a band to band/ solo to solo comparison.
I dont think so. Sure, there are more shackles being in a group of 5 song writers, but the collective unit can make certain decisions regarding their artistic approach and output.
they can, but it is much harder--especially when what you are saying they need to do is follow a creative vision that may not be shared amongst 5 people. It's a relationship, and you make different choices as a result.
harmless wrote:Cold Confession is almost being given a reggae groove by Matt and Jeff. Love it.
It's totally reggae.
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
theplatypus wrote:Guys, I was under the impression the song's name was Cold Concession. I like that title a lot better. Where did we get "Confession"? From that Italian site? They don't even speak English.
italians are pretty dumb
Dev wrote:you're delusional. you are a sad sad person. fuck off. you're mentally ill beyond repair. i don't need your shit. dissapear.
I'd be willing to bet Matt isn't playing on "Cold Confession." It sounds nothing like him. I wonder if it's Stone. Maybe Matt called in sick, that day. "Let it Ride" definitely is Matt, though.
stip wrote:
Different strokes, but that's a legit position that Tuolumne is articulating. Michael Stipe, for instance, used to introduce Losing My Religion by saying 'this is your song--we just cover it'. It's focusing on the shared experience of the art, rather than the art in isolation.
Yeah, but I don't think Michael Stipe's inspiration for writing Losing My Religion sprung out of "what will the festival crowds like?"
no, but at the same time accelerate, which is a marvelous album, was clearly influenced by the experience of playing them for an audience and seeing what worked and what didn't.
I didn't see any evidence at Wrigley that the new songs were 'working live', so hopefully he goes back to the drawing board
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
