Cold Confession and Let It Ride - Avocado Outtakes

[harmless]

Fuck yeah they're trying to solicit yeah yeah yeahs from the audience. Add in some "uhhh huhhhs" and "woahh ooos" too. Ever heard "She Loves you" by a band called the Beatles? How about "Man on the Moon" by REM? Oh wait, and "Lithium" by Nirvana?

Pop should not be a dirty word. Pop songwriting is a very difficult craft. Especially when mixed with punk or any qualities that can be a little subversive. But to carry a melody concisely and be able to grab a listener within seconds, and then hold the listener for multiple listens is really difficult.

It's just a different form of songwriting than letting a chord progression simmer and then use a vocal to enhance a mood, like I thnk Cold Confession does. They just chose not to go with it this time. Maybe next time they will. But why dismiss this entire era at this point as some sort of commercial sellout? It's just what they wanted to do at the time. Why is simply shortening a verse, and shortening the vocal melody and taking out delays and echos to be more compact and dynamic and catchy (dirty word?) such a bad thing. It takes a huge amount of effort, and they did it pretty well on Backspacer I thought. They clearly listened to lots of Little Steven 60s garage stuff, lots fo Guided By Voices, lots of early Who, lots of Neil Finn, Buzzcocks and added a little modern sheen to it. They didn't succeed so much and making it subversive but they managed to maintain lots of rock n roll punch. It's good and lots of people agree with me.

This is a massive strawman. Who's saying that catchy music is bad? The difference that everyone kept claiming is that if your sole inspiration is for writing a song that is about getting crowd participation, it's got a likelier chance of lacking, you know, a feeling of actual inspiration. Are there bands and artists that can write a song solely for that reason and have it be good? Sure. Do I think Pearl Jam is one of those bands? Not that I've seen.

A lot of people complaining about poppy songs on Backspacer (for example) are fans of other '3-minute-pop-songs' type bands. A lot of them are passionate about various pop bands and musicians, and because of that, they know that Backspacer can't possibly stack up with them. Even by its own standards it sets for itself, there are bits and pieces on Backspacer that make it fall flat. As an example, one of my favourite bands is Counting Crows, and I think their album 'Hard Candy' (an album Adam Duritz has said was written as an experiment to see if he could write the perfect 3-minute pop song) knocks Backspacer out of the park. That's before we've even mentioned the fact that a lot of PJ's New Wave / pop 'models' for this album are far better at this kind of music than them.

[Malloy]

[digster]

A lot of people complaining about poppy songs on Backspacer (for example) are fans of other '3-minute-pop-songs' type bands. A lot of them are passionate about various pop bands and musicians, and because of that, they know that Backspacer can't possibly stack up with them. Even by its own standards it sets for itself, there are bits and pieces on Backspacer that make it fall flat. As an example, one of my favourite bands is Counting Crows, and I think their album 'Hard Candy' (an album Adam Duritz has said was written as an experiment to see if he could write the perfect 3-minute pop song) knocks Backspacer out of the park. That's before we've even mentioned the fact that a lot of PJ's New Wave / pop 'models' for this album are far better at this kind of music than them.

A lot of people complaining about songs on Backspacer like other '3-minute-pop-songs' this actual band has done. I think this kind of thing, the endless back and forth about whether this board is negative or not, is way worse for it than any actual negativity. It's the ultimate in minutiae conversation that probably isn't interesting to anyone involved in it, much less just reading it.

[Dr. Van Nostrand]

Mind Your Manners, Of The Earth, Cold Confession, Let It Ride are damn cool songs. Just sayin.
Oh and Lightning Bolt isnt so bad given a few more listens.

OK, you've had your break. Back to bitchin!

if they are all on the new album, it would be a damn good album for sure, maybe they will re track this thing after all the commotion these songs have caused

[E.H. Ruddock]

I JUST SAW THE ROYAL BABY. NONE OF THIS MATTERS.

[Thejambi]

This has been exhausting.

[KurtLeon]

Mind Your Manners, Of The Earth, Cold Confession, Let It Ride are damn cool songs. Just sayin.
Oh and Lightning Bolt isnt so bad given a few more listens.

OK, you've had your break. Back to bitchin!

if they are all on the new album, it would be a damn good album for sure, maybe they will re track this thing after all the commotion these songs have caused

[melonhead4]

Conspiracy Theory-Someone in the band released on purpose as a cry for help. After they heard all the bashing of the new songs, altho I for one like MYM, they want us to know that they are still capable of writing good tunes but Ed wont release them....Listen I love Eddie as much as the next guy but he needs to yield.

[Jorge]

The difference between the board's response to "Lightning Rod" and "Future Days" (which was, basically, "meh") vs. the reaction to these two leaked tracks ("HOLY SHIT WHAT IS THIS OMG") is pretty staggering.

[Tuolumne]

I think there are different forms of art. There is "solitary" art - based on pure intrinsic inspiration from within, and there is "inviting" art (for lack fo a better term) that asks for participation. I think that's a conversation that needs to be had around here.

[Lounge Lizard]

Mind Your Manners, Of The Earth, Cold Confession, Let It Ride are damn cool songs. Just sayin.
Oh and Lightning Bolt isnt so bad given a few more listens.

OK, you've had your break. Back to bitchin!

if they are all on the new album, it would be a damn good album for sure, maybe they will re track this thing after all the commotion these songs have caused

I'm pretty sure Of The Earth is on it.
Just watched/listened to it on Youtube. Totally epic. Material like this truly creates a band's legacy.

[Heathen]

I think there are different forms of art. There is "solitary" art - based on pure intrinsic inspiration from within, and there is "inviting" art (for lack fo a better term) that asks for participation. I think that's a conversation that needs to be had around here.

or we could something else

[harmless]

The difference between the board's response to "Lightning Rod" and "Future Days" (which was, basically, "meh") vs. the reaction to these two leaked tracks ("HOLY SHIT WHAT IS THIS OMG") is pretty staggering.

You're so meta Jorge. What is your opinion on the songs?

[Strat]

I think there are different forms of art. There is "solitary" art - based on pure intrinsic inspiration from within, and there is "inviting" art (for lack fo a better term) that asks for participation. I think that's a conversation that needs to be had around here.

One is far more emotionally engaging and rewarding.

/conversation

[Lounge Lizard]

Mind Your Manners, Of The Earth, Cold Confession, Let It Ride are damn cool songs. Just sayin.
Oh and Lightning Bolt isnt so bad given a few more listens.

OK, you've had your break. Back to bitchin!

if they are all on the new album, it would be a damn good album for sure, maybe they will re track this thing after all the commotion these songs have caused

lmao

[Tuolumne]

Fuck yeah they're trying to solicit yeah yeah yeahs from the audience. Add in some "uhhh huhhhs" and "woahh ooos" too. Ever heard "She Loves you" by a band called the Beatles? How about "Man on the Moon" by REM? Oh wait, and "Lithium" by Nirvana?

Pop should not be a dirty word. Pop songwriting is a very difficult craft. Especially when mixed with punk or any qualities that can be a little subversive. But to carry a melody concisely and be able to grab a listener within seconds, and then hold the listener for multiple listens is really difficult.

It's just a different form of songwriting than letting a chord progression simmer and then use a vocal to enhance a mood, like I thnk Cold Confession does. They just chose not to go with it this time. Maybe next time they will. But why dismiss this entire era at this point as some sort of commercial sellout? It's just what they wanted to do at the time. Why is simply shortening a verse, and shortening the vocal melody and taking out delays and echos to be more compact and dynamic and catchy (dirty word?) such a bad thing. It takes a huge amount of effort, and they did it pretty well on Backspacer I thought. They clearly listened to lots of Little Steven 60s garage stuff, lots fo Guided By Voices, lots of early Who, lots of Neil Finn, Buzzcocks and added a little modern sheen to it. They didn't succeed so much and making it subversive but they managed to maintain lots of rock n roll punch. It's good and lots of people agree with me.

This is a massive strawman. Who's saying that catchy music is bad? The difference that everyone kept claiming is that if your sole inspiration is for writing a song that is about getting crowd participation, it's got a likelier chance of lacking, you know, a feeling of actual inspiration. Are there bands and artists that can write a song solely for that reason and have it be good? Sure. Do I think Pearl Jam is one of those bands? Not that I've seen.

Yeah, and I would more than value an argument based on that. But I see very little of it here. I see alot of copping out and calling it a sellout or lack of effort or lazy or no inspiration. I see if often measured without any benchmark or against the wrong benchmarks.

[Jorge]

The difference between the board's response to "Lightning Rod" and "Future Days" (which was, basically, "meh") vs. the reaction to these two leaked tracks ("HOLY SHIT WHAT IS THIS OMG") is pretty staggering.

You're so meta Jorge. What is your opinion on the songs?

I like them a lot.

[Lounge Lizard]

Conspiracy Theory-Someone in the band released on purpose as a cry for help. After they heard all the bashing of the new songs, altho I for one like MYM, they want us to know that they are still capable of writing good tunes but Ed wont release them....Listen I love Eddie as much as the next guy but he needs to yield.

Who in their right mind would bash MYM? It fucking rocks!

[E.H. Ruddock]

I still think it's "Cold Concession"

[harmless]

I think there are different forms of art. There is "solitary" art - based on pure intrinsic inspiration from within, and there is "inviting" art (for lack fo a better term) that asks for participation. I think that's a conversation that needs to be had around here.

One is far more emotionally engaging and rewarding.

/conversation

I'm guessing all of the latter PJ stuff Tuolumne likes is in the "inviting" category.