Cold Confession and Let It Ride - Avocado Outtakes

[harmless]

Did Matt drum these? I'm not even sure if that's Matt anymore. Too many awesome triplet fills and flams. Oh, and stylish open hi-hats.

[harmless]

Well, to me it's the 'breathiness' of the vocals which give the song it's character. I don't think the voice breaking adds anything to it.

I agree. It's actually taking away from the song. Let's admit it - bad singing has never done any good to a song, and this singing was plain bad.

No, this is bad singing:


What he's doing on CC is an artistic choice, not bad singing. I happen to think it's really good singing. Vulnerable doesn't mean bad.

Same can be said for The End.

Aw man, I like the fixer.

Also, I can't help it. I love the mans voice and ill take his "bad" singing any day

I guess I have a different appreciation of vocals than you guys and what I'm finding as a fault is fine with you. I don't mind Ed sounding vulnerable. I don't equate that with bad. I equate not being able to hold a note as bad and voice cracking unintentionally as bad. I am not against screaming Ed either as most seem to be here. I like Ed's singing on the Fixer. I also like it on The End, Inside Job and Immortality. Those three songs are bringing vulnerability without sacrificing on the technical aspects of singing. That's my only qualm about CC which I still love as it is. I'm a bit of a vocal snob so you're never going to be able to convince me that voice cracks and unintentional notes are good in anyway.

I think I know what you're talking about in terms of the voice crackling and sounding uncomfortable rather than vulnerable. Strangely, I thought that about nearly everything off S/T but not these songs. I hate the Comatose vocals and the chorus of Life Wasted, for example.

The songs you mentioned have Ed straining for high notes and getting them, not missing them or hitting unintentional ones. That may not sound 'pleasant' compared to say, In Hiding or Release but that's a stylistic thing. Technically, the singing is fine in those songs. His singing in most of Vs and Vitalogy is similar in approach. In CC, he does what the song requires most of the time but then at parts, especially the end of certain phrases, he loses control of the ending note and his voice breaks. I recall parts of Got Some with voice cracks too which should never have been present on a studio song ('I got some if you ne-ed it').

He only 'gets' the high notes on S/T because he's singing from his throat rather than his chest. MYM shows him giving it some proper effort and he does really well. The approach of Comatose was to screech as high as he could, because screeching was the only way he could possibly reach those notes. This is much more unpleasant than the calm, cool high notes that he (more or less) reaches on CC, even if they're a little rough. I don't want Ed to get rid of all the imperfections of his voice, I just would like him to not screech in an attempt to reach notes that he can't reach in any other way. It's not an 'artistic choice', it's lazy overcompensation. That's why he's had to down tune so many songs since S/T, including Comatose, funnily enough.

Completely disagree here. It's not lazy overcompensation or screeching, it's technique. Ed is a low baritone. The higher he gets into his range, the more 'head' voice he has to use. This is true of any singer. MYM has a highest note of B4 (ending scream) which is similar to Comatose and some A4s earlier which you probably feel he's singing with his chest. He can pull a lot of chest into his voice uptil A4. The In Hiding chorus is A4 too. When he gets above that, he generally uses less chest and more head. Pulling chest into very high notes is not something that will help you maintain your voice.

Chris Cornell did it for years and sounded bad ass but he also ruined his voice as a result. Ed sounded bad ass singing Blood but that was just uncontrolled screaming. Comatose is perfectly controlled singing. He mimic those notes throughout the song and maintains them with control. The reason for tuning songs down is because at his age, it's difficult to maintain his voice singing those kind of songs day in and day out. LROM is probably one of Ed's best vocal performances. He is screaming there too, but it's completely controlled. D5s littered all over that song. That's just about near the top of his range. MYM or Comatose isn't near the top of his range, it's merely upper fourth octave but it does take effort to do that live repeatedly on tour.

I don't know, you sound more proficient at talking about vocal technique than me. I just like what I like and try my best to articulate why. And I don't like the snarly screechiness of much of Ed's vocals on S/T.

[elliseamos]

stylish open hi-hats.

that's why i asked you about it yesterday.

[Monkey_Driven]

On a few more listens I've identified what bothers me about Ed's vocal delivery on CC. It's the the repeated straining at the beginning/middle of each phrase. I don't mind it as much after later listens, but it still drags the song down a bit for me.

[harmless]

stylish open hi-hats.

that's why i asked you about it yesterday.

It's weird. I can cope with more closed hats. I realised, on the way back from the doctors' surgery just now and blasting No Code, that Hail Hail is mostly closed hats at the beginning. I just need some knowledge of when it's time to open them to lend some force to the song, coupled with some really nicely mixed snare sound. That song has both. Jack doesn't sound unconfident with the hats and doesn't pull any punches when the song gets loud. Also, the hats are loosely closed, not tightly.

[elliseamos]

let it ride and lightning bolt seem like the same song... message wise, not musically obviously.

[elliseamos]

stylish open hi-hats.

that's why i asked you about it yesterday.

It's weird. I can cope with more closed hats. I realised, on the way back from the doctors' surgery just now and blasting No Code, that Hail Hail is mostly closed hats at the beginning. I just need some knowledge of when it's time to open them to lend some force to the song, coupled with some really nicely mixed snare sound. That song has both. Jack doesn't sound unconfident with the hats and doesn't pull any punches when the song gets loud. Also, the hats are loosely closed, not tightly.

i'm with you.

[harmless]

I would put both of these songs at 4/5. They'd both get a 5 if they had something more, structurally. CC could do with a bridge, it's the same few chords all the way through.

[elliseamos]

i like'em as is.

[Lounge Lizard]

On a few more listens I've identified what bothers me about Ed's vocal delivery on CC. It's the the repeated straining at the beginning/middle of each phrase. I don't mind it as much after later listens, but it still drags the song down a bit for me.

Simply put, the vocal melody needs a bit more work to make it less repetitive

[Monkey_Driven]

On a few more listens I've identified what bothers me about Ed's vocal delivery on CC. It's the the repeated straining at the beginning/middle of each phrase. I don't mind it as much after later listens, but it still drags the song down a bit for me.

Simply put, the vocal melody needs a bit more work to make it less repetitive

This.

[stupidmop]

Febbraio/Giugno 1997 - Studio Litho - Seattle, WA; Agosto/Settembre 1997 - Studio Litho and Studio X - Seattle, WA and Southern Tracks Recording - Atlanta, GA
Ed Vedder - vocals, guitar, background vocals; Stone Gossard - guitar, background vocals, bass on 'Do The Evolution' and 'No Way'; Mike McCready - guitar; Jeff Ament - bass, background vocals; Jack Irons - drum kit, percussion, vocals on 'The Whale Song'; Brendan O'Brien - organ, piano

All Those Yesterdays
Bayleaf
Brain Of J.
Bulldozer
Color Red, The (a.k.a. Red Dot)
Do The Evolution
Faithfull
Fallen (a.k.a. Falling Down)
Given To Fly
Happy When I'm Crying
Hummus
In Hiding
Leatherman
Leatherman II
Low Light
MFC (a.k.a. Mini Fast Car)
No Way
Of The Girl
Parting Ways
Pilate
Push Me, Pull Me
Thin Air
Whale Song, The (a.k.a. Whales)
Wishlist
U

I wonder what bulldozer is, only song outta the bunch we haven't heard except leatherman 2 which i assume bears some resemblance to leatherman at least.

[southp]

I would put both of these songs at 4/5. They'd both get a 5 if they had something more, structurally. CC could do with a bridge, it's the same few chords all the way through.

how can you put both of these songs at 4/5 yet go on to say that they both need more structurally and one of them doesn't have a bridge? I'm curious what other songs in the catalog would have at 4/5?

[Lounge Lizard]

On a few more listens I've identified what bothers me about Ed's vocal delivery on CC. It's the the repeated straining at the beginning/middle of each phrase. I don't mind it as much after later listens, but it still drags the song down a bit for me.

Simply put, the vocal melody needs a bit more work to make it less repetitive

This.

It also crossed my mind during one listen that shortening the verses might work too. Less text, more Mike and Stone.

[harmless]

I would put both of these songs at 4/5. They'd both get a 5 if they had something more, structurally. CC could do with a bridge, it's the same few chords all the way through.

how can you put both of these songs at 4/5 yet go on to say that they both need more structurally and one of them doesn't have a bridge? I'm curious what other songs in the catalog would have at 4/5?

Is this really a question? 'How can you...?' can usually be met with 'Because I did.' I'm not comparing it to a range of other songs in the canon, I'm just giving it an enjoyment score. Everything about these songs is so very enjoyable that they have a 4, in spite of being very basic structurally and not having a bridge. For me, a bridge which took the song temporarily somewhere else, would give them that extra point.

[Strat]

Settle down, Harmy.

[harmless]

'How can you...' was a bit needlessly spikey, that's all.

[Release_Me]

Well, to me it's the 'breathiness' of the vocals which give the song it's character. I don't think the voice breaking adds anything to it.

I agree. It's actually taking away from the song. Let's admit it - bad singing has never done any good to a song, and this singing was plain bad.

No, this is bad singing:


What he's doing on CC is an artistic choice, not bad singing. I happen to think it's really good singing. Vulnerable doesn't mean bad.

Same can be said for The End.

Aw man, I like the fixer.

Also, I can't help it. I love the mans voice and ill take his "bad" singing any day

I guess I have a different appreciation of vocals than you guys and what I'm finding as a fault is fine with you. I don't mind Ed sounding vulnerable. I don't equate that with bad. I equate not being able to hold a note as bad and voice cracking unintentionally as bad. I am not against screaming Ed either as most seem to be here. I like Ed's singing on the Fixer. I also like it on The End, Inside Job and Immortality. Those three songs are bringing vulnerability without sacrificing on the technical aspects of singing. That's my only qualm about CC which I still love as it is. I'm a bit of a vocal snob so you're never going to be able to convince me that voice cracks and unintentional notes are good in anyway.

I think I know what you're talking about in terms of the voice crackling and sounding uncomfortable rather than vulnerable. Strangely, I thought that about nearly everything off S/T but not these songs. I hate the Comatose vocals and the chorus of Life Wasted, for example.

The songs you mentioned have Ed straining for high notes and getting them, not missing them or hitting unintentional ones. That may not sound 'pleasant' compared to say, In Hiding or Release but that's a stylistic thing. Technically, the singing is fine in those songs. His singing in most of Vs and Vitalogy is similar in approach. In CC, he does what the song requires most of the time but then at parts, especially the end of certain phrases, he loses control of the ending note and his voice breaks. I recall parts of Got Some with voice cracks too which should never have been present on a studio song ('I got some if you ne-ed it').

He only 'gets' the high notes on S/T because he's singing from his throat rather than his chest. MYM shows him giving it some proper effort and he does really well. The approach of Comatose was to screech as high as he could, because screeching was the only way he could possibly reach those notes. This is much more unpleasant than the calm, cool high notes that he (more or less) reaches on CC, even if they're a little rough. I don't want Ed to get rid of all the imperfections of his voice, I just would like him to not screech in an attempt to reach notes that he can't reach in any other way. It's not an 'artistic choice', it's lazy overcompensation. That's why he's had to down tune so many songs since S/T, including Comatose, funnily enough.

Completely disagree here. It's not lazy overcompensation or screeching, it's technique. Ed is a low baritone. The higher he gets into his range, the more 'head' voice he has to use. This is true of any singer. MYM has a highest note of B4 (ending scream) which is similar to Comatose and some A4s earlier which you probably feel he's singing with his chest. He can pull a lot of chest into his voice uptil A4. The In Hiding chorus is A4 too. When he gets above that, he generally uses less chest and more head. Pulling chest into very high notes is not something that will help you maintain your voice.

Chris Cornell did it for years and sounded bad ass but he also ruined his voice as a result. Ed sounded bad ass singing Blood but that was just uncontrolled screaming. Comatose is perfectly controlled singing. He mimic those notes throughout the song and maintains them with control. The reason for tuning songs down is because at his age, it's difficult to maintain his voice singing those kind of songs day in and day out. LROM is probably one of Ed's best vocal performances. He is screaming there too, but it's completely controlled. D5s littered all over that song. That's just about near the top of his range. MYM or Comatose isn't near the top of his range, it's merely upper fourth octave but it does take effort to do that live repeatedly on tour.

I don't know, you sound more proficient at talking about vocal technique than me. I just like what I like and try my best to articulate why. And I don't like the snarly screechiness of much of Ed's vocals on S/T.

And I completely understand why you wouldn't 'like' it. Liking or not liking anything is quite subjective. I like EV's voice much more than Cornell's, even though having learned a lot about vocals by discussing with people more knowledgeable than me, I've realised Chris is undoubtedly the 'better' singer from a technical standpoint. Anyway, this discussion was just a consequence of my repeated listens to CC. I'm loving the song for sure and there is no one, absolutely no one who can bring the emotion like Ed does when he wants to. I guess we all believe that since we are on a PJ forum.

[stupidmop]

The only parts of the vocals i don't like are the low bits at the beginning i.e "floated" " a life" only because once i noticed they were different i cant stop noticing it. Oh and the 'heee heee' bits at the end, i like the 'yeaaa' 'aaahhh' bits and id even take an 'eeee' but a full on 'heeee heee' just reminds me of michael jackson. But im just nitpicking. Still it.

[Thejambi]

I would put both of these songs at 4/5. They'd both get a 5 if they had something more, structurally. CC could do with a bridge, it's the same few chords all the way through.

how can you put both of these songs at 4/5 yet go on to say that they both need more structurally and one of them doesn't have a bridge? I'm curious what other songs in the catalog would have at 4/5?

It's not broken nor unfinished because it doesn't have a bridge. I don't think it calls for one really but it wouldn't hurt it to have one. I personally like the droning on the song does.