Does anyone care about the economy?

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McParadigm
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Re: Does anyone care about the economy?

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4/5 wrote:In the United States the following statements are true about people labeled as living in poverty:
96% say that their children were never hungry in the last year because they couldn't afford food.
A self-reporting statistic with a qualifier attached.

First: Food insecurity. Food insecurity is defined as limited or uncertain availability of nutritiously adequate and safe foods or limited or uncertain ability to acquire acceptable foods in socially acceptable ways.

In 2014, 48 million people (15.4%) were food insecure in the United States. This included 13.1 million children.

Now, that is in fact down from a peak of around 20 million children during the Reagan years. However, it's *still* misleading if used as a demonstration of how the lower classes have benefitted from economic growth, because all of the change has occurred in states that have built robust, well-funded food distribution programs for the poor (free breakfast programs at schools have helped, too). In states like North Dakota, which have opted not to develop these services or cannot afford to, conditions have not improved.

In other words, proximity to wealthy people with an appreciation for social services is the determining factor, not any personal circumstantial benefit derived from national economic growth.
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Re: Does anyone care about the economy?

Post by Bi_3 »

I would add that the things you mentioned are "things". Things break down. They rot. They become obsolete. Without wealth, all you are doing is replacing and maintaining things.
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Re: Does anyone care about the economy?

Post by 4/5 »

Bi_3 wrote:I would add that the things you mentioned are "things". Things break down. They rot. They become obsolete. Without wealth, all you are doing is replacing and maintaining things.
I think "things" are probably a better measurement of how well a person is doing than comparing money, even real dollars, over time. So if people who are similarly poor as far as income is concerned have access to/own more/better "things" I think that is a sign of things becoming less bad over time.

I'm not saying the poor have it good or that inequality isn't a problem. However, I do think that some measures that indicate the poor are becoming more poor as a group leave out some important information that can provide context.
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Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump

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Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump

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Neither of those posts seem like ringing endorsements of globalization. In fact, the opposite.
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Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump

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Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump

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Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump

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My plan is simple: kill the Batman
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Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump

Post by BurtReynolds »

tragabigzanda wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:Neither of those posts seem like ringing endorsements of globalization. In fact, the opposite.
I'm not endorsing it, just accepting it's the reality. What would Bannon have us do? Stop trading with other countries and making all of our widgets domestically? Or continue global trade, but push deals that create ever more deplorable working and environmental conditions wherever our widgets are made?
Given those two choices: the first one.
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Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump

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Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump

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I'd rather we moved to a Star Trek model where we don't need to work but whatever.
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Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump

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Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump

Post by 4/5 »

tragabigzanda wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:Neither of those posts seem like ringing endorsements of globalization. In fact, the opposite.
I'm not endorsing it, just accepting it's the reality. What would Bannon have us do? Stop trading with other countries and making all of our widgets domestically? Or continue global trade, but push deals that create ever more deplorable working and environmental conditions wherever our widgets are made?
Before I respond I want to make sure I understand what you're saying. Are you arguing that global trade creates ever more deplorable working and environmental conditions?
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Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump

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Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump

Post by 4/5 »

tragabigzanda wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:Neither of those posts seem like ringing endorsements of globalization. In fact, the opposite.
I'm not endorsing it, just accepting it's the reality. What would Bannon have us do? Stop trading with other countries and making all of our widgets domestically? Or continue global trade, but push deals that create ever more deplorable working and environmental conditions wherever our widgets are made?
Given those two choices: the first one.
Oh, it'd be great if we could make it happen. But even if we could execute some modern New Deal situation that put every American to work in the manufacturing sector, how long would it take to implement? 20 years?
Why on earth would it be great to bring back manufacturing jobs to the U.S.? The fact that those jobs are gone is a sign of progress. As a nation we are too skilled and too productive for those jobs at this point and that's a really good thing.
"I want to see the whole picture--as nearly as I can. I don't want to put on the blinders of 'good and bad,' and limit my vision."-- In Dubious Battle

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Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump

Post by McParadigm »

There is an economy thread. The person this thread is about does not have the power to prevent or destroy the globalization of this or other economies. It's a testament to the stupidity of Steve Bannon and associates that they believe otherwise. I almost spelled testament wrong.
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Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump

Post by bune »

4/5 wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:Neither of those posts seem like ringing endorsements of globalization. In fact, the opposite.
I'm not endorsing it, just accepting it's the reality. What would Bannon have us do? Stop trading with other countries and making all of our widgets domestically? Or continue global trade, but push deals that create ever more deplorable working and environmental conditions wherever our widgets are made?
Given those two choices: the first one.
Oh, it'd be great if we could make it happen. But even if we could execute some modern New Deal situation that put every American to work in the manufacturing sector, how long would it take to implement? 20 years?
Why on earth would it be great to bring back manufacturing jobs to the U.S.? The fact that those jobs are gone is a sign of progress. As a nation we are too skilled and too productive for those jobs at this point and that's a really good thing.
I feel like this is sarcasm.
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Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump

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FUCK ICE
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Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump

Post by 4/5 »

tragabigzanda wrote:
4/5 wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:Neither of those posts seem like ringing endorsements of globalization. In fact, the opposite.
I'm not endorsing it, just accepting it's the reality. What would Bannon have us do? Stop trading with other countries and making all of our widgets domestically? Or continue global trade, but push deals that create ever more deplorable working and environmental conditions wherever our widgets are made?
Given those two choices: the first one.
Oh, it'd be great if we could make it happen. But even if we could execute some modern New Deal situation that put every American to work in the manufacturing sector, how long would it take to implement? 20 years?
Why on earth would it be great to bring back manufacturing jobs to the U.S.? The fact that those jobs are gone is a sign of progress. As a nation we are too skilled and too productive for those jobs at this point and that's a really good thing.
As a small business owner pursuing all manner of funding for development of a light manufacturing line in a rural area, I wholeheartedly disagree. There are people less than a hundred feet from where I'm sitting right now who would love a manufacturing job.
Sure, there are some low-skilled workers who get left behind, but on net we are far better off without those jobs. And there is still A LOT of manufacturing done in the U.S., it just tends to be highly automated with higher-skilled and well-payed workers.
"I want to see the whole picture--as nearly as I can. I don't want to put on the blinders of 'good and bad,' and limit my vision."-- In Dubious Battle

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Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump

Post by 4/5 »

tragabigzanda wrote:
4/5 wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:Neither of those posts seem like ringing endorsements of globalization. In fact, the opposite.
I'm not endorsing it, just accepting it's the reality. What would Bannon have us do? Stop trading with other countries and making all of our widgets domestically? Or continue global trade, but push deals that create ever more deplorable working and environmental conditions wherever our widgets are made?
Given those two choices: the first one.
Oh, it'd be great if we could make it happen. But even if we could execute some modern New Deal situation that put every American to work in the manufacturing sector, how long would it take to implement? 20 years?
Why on earth would it be great to bring back manufacturing jobs to the U.S.? The fact that those jobs are gone is a sign of progress. As a nation we are too skilled and too productive for those jobs at this point and that's a really good thing.
As a small business owner pursuing all manner of funding for development of a light manufacturing line in a rural area, I wholeheartedly disagree. There are people less than a hundred feet from where I'm sitting right now who would love a manufacturing job.
And if I'm not misunderstanding you, this would seem to suggest that you have a workforce sitting there waiting to get a manufacturing job from you. Presumably, you'll be manufacturing something that you can afford to pay American workers to make and still be competitive. This sounds like a good thing for both sides.
"I want to see the whole picture--as nearly as I can. I don't want to put on the blinders of 'good and bad,' and limit my vision."-- In Dubious Battle

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