Song of the Moment: Betterman

[mikejasond]

....using the same 3 chords does not mean its repetitive? Because there are other aspects of music besides just the chords

Of course it means it’s repetirive! The things happening outside of those 3 chords are nothing special on their own. Mike plays a pretty standard solo. Stone plays different variations of the chords Ed is playing on the acoustic. This is Rock Band Song Writing 101. It just works though on this song. The stars aligned for it.

Ok so can somebody please link me to a rock song like this, that is 3-4 minutes long, and never once repeats the same section exactly ?

[Rangi Guy]

Thank you for directing me to this post Ruddo.

[E.H. Ruddock]

Thank you for directing me to this post Ruddo.

[mikejasond]

What about Not For You? Sure it starts with drums from the start, but it builds and is 3 chords (not counting the bridge). How does that register?

I mean its a good song, but the first two verses, first two choruses...are pretty much exactly the same Some bridges repeat too.

I do think Not For You makes a song with LITERALLY a three chord riff more interesting than youd ever expect it to be using similar devices. (The change in riff making it heavier in between verses...very cool technique)

Its also a much greater song than it has any right being so they're similar in that way.

[mikejasond]

dude, the first few lines of the second verse before the band kicks in is exactly the same as the first. So how is that not repetitive? And because EV sings the chorus louder, is that why you think it isn't "repetitive"? Because singing it louder doesn't change the fact that he still says "betterman"

That's true. The one repetitive part is the very first line of the second verse, so about ten seconds of the song. But for me, the drums kicking in at the end of his sentence marks it as something different.

And its not just EV singing the chorus louder. The background music is completely different. The feel and rhythm is completely different. Its a new twist on the same idea.

[Rangi Guy]

I find myself skipping this more often than not when it comes up on a mix these days

[mikejasond]

Seriously if you listened to the first and second choruses in a vacuum you'd think you were listening to different songs. The tone and feel and rhythm and instrumentation and mood is just completely different.

[Strat]

dude, the first few lines of the second verse before the band kicks in is exactly the same as the first. So how is that not repetitive? And because EV sings the chorus louder, is that why you think it isn't "repetitive"? Because singing it louder doesn't change the fact that he still says "betterman"

That's true. The one repetitive part is the very first line of the second verse, so about ten seconds of the song. But for me, the drums kicking in at the end of his sentence marks it as something different.

And its not just EV singing the chorus louder. The background music is completely different. The feel and rhythm is completely different. Its a new twist on the same idea.

THE BACKGROUND MUSIC IS NO DIFFERENT HOLY FUCKING SHIT I ALKSDJFAKL;SDJF;ANC;D;SDF

[Strat]

Seriously if you listened to the first and second choruses in a vacuum you'd think you were listening to different songs. The tone and feel and rhythm and instrumentation and mood is just completely different.

No. nobody would. they would all know its the same song. everyone in the world but you, actually.

[ledvedderman]

....using the same 3 chords does not mean its repetitive? Because there are other aspects of music besides just the chords

Of course it means it’s repetirive! The things happening outside of those 3 chords are nothing special on their own. Mike plays a pretty standard solo. Stone plays different variations of the chords Ed is playing on the acoustic. This is Rock Band Song Writing 101. It just works though on this song. The stars aligned for it.

Ok so can somebody please link me to a rock song like this, that is 3-4 minutes long, and never once repeats the same section exactly ?

That’s not how songs work. Well, maybe a prog rock type of thing but songs have formulas. Verse, chorus, Bridge, hook, intro, outro, solo, etc... Somewhere in those is a song. But there’s a formula. If a song wants to be on pop radio or modern programming, there has to be a repetitive element to it. But you’re saying there’s NOTHING repetitive in Betterman. That’s the root of this argument.

[mikejasond]

dude, the first few lines of the second verse before the band kicks in is exactly the same as the first. So how is that not repetitive? And because EV sings the chorus louder, is that why you think it isn't "repetitive"? Because singing it louder doesn't change the fact that he still says "betterman"

That's true. The one repetitive part is the very first line of the second verse, so about ten seconds of the song. But for me, the drums kicking in at the end of his sentence marks it as something different.

And its not just EV singing the chorus louder. The background music is completely different. The feel and rhythm is completely different. Its a new twist on the same idea.

THE BACKGROUND MUSIC IS NO DIFFERENT HOLY FUCKING SHIT I ALKSDJFAKL;SDJF;ANC;D;SDF

Are you a robot? The background music is no different???

You can't tell the difference between a delicate EV singing with only an organ and a light guitar, and a rocking, bouncing, electric guitar with drums?

[mikejasond]

....using the same 3 chords does not mean its repetitive? Because there are other aspects of music besides just the chords

Of course it means it’s repetirive! The things happening outside of those 3 chords are nothing special on their own. Mike plays a pretty standard solo. Stone plays different variations of the chords Ed is playing on the acoustic. This is Rock Band Song Writing 101. It just works though on this song. The stars aligned for it.

Ok so can somebody please link me to a rock song like this, that is 3-4 minutes long, and never once repeats the same section exactly ?

That’s not how songs work. Well, maybe a prog rock type of thing but songs have formulas. Verse, chorus, Bridge, hook, intro, outro, solo, etc... Somewhere in those is a song. But there’s a formula. If a song wants to be on pop radio or modern programming, there has to be a repetitive element to it. But you’re saying there’s NOTHING repetitive in Betterman. That’s the root of this argument.

exactly. And Betterman twists this formula by never delivering the same thing twice. THAT is what makes it unique. MOST SONGS the choruses sound the same. Most times they'll repeat MULTIPLE times. Most times the verses repeat too.

And nobody has posted a song that does this like Betterman does. The Creed and Lifehouse songs did start by building but then they stayed in the same place, whereas betterman's second half is very surprising

[Birds in Hell]

mikejasond is the greatest thing that has happened to this board in the last few years.

[mikejasond]

Lets put it this way. Every section of Betterman has a new twist, a new surprise, something new to hear. And manages to come together as a very very very cohesive whole despite never touching the same exact ground twice

[bart]

Why is this still hapenning?

[mikejasond]

And yes it accomplishes a similar build to a song like Stairway. And it does it in the guise of a 4 minute pop song without wasting a single SECOND.

[PHATJ]

Seriously if you listened to the first and second choruses in a vacuum you'd think you were listening to different songs. The tone and feel and rhythm and instrumentation and mood is just completely different.

No. nobody would. they would all know its the same song. everyone in the world but you, actually.

I wrote nearly the identical response before I saw you had already posted it.

[Strat]

dude, the first few lines of the second verse before the band kicks in is exactly the same as the first. So how is that not repetitive? And because EV sings the chorus louder, is that why you think it isn't "repetitive"? Because singing it louder doesn't change the fact that he still says "betterman"

That's true. The one repetitive part is the very first line of the second verse, so about ten seconds of the song. But for me, the drums kicking in at the end of his sentence marks it as something different.

And its not just EV singing the chorus louder. The background music is completely different. The feel and rhythm is completely different. Its a new twist on the same idea.

THE BACKGROUND MUSIC IS NO DIFFERENT HOLY FUCKING SHIT I ALKSDJFAKL;SDJF;ANC;D;SDF

Are you a robot? The background music is no different???

You can't tell the difference between a delicate EV singing with only an organ and a light guitar, and a rocking, bouncing, electric guitar with drums?

a new twist on the same idea? As in, adding drums and bass? Geezes. What geniuses!

[Rangi Guy]

Can you do a reaction video to this song - I'd be genuinely interested in seeing it

[PHATJ]