Song of the Moment: Betterman

[ledvedderman]

Remember the scene from “The Contest” episode where Kramer slammed his money on the counter and said he was out?

I’m out.

This is not an argument than can be won. It just can’t.

[E.H. Ruddock]

Last week this song was maybe top 30 for me. mjd has made it fall to about 100 in the PJ catalog

[mikejasond]

dude, the first few lines of the second verse before the band kicks in is exactly the same as the first. So how is that not repetitive? And because EV sings the chorus louder, is that why you think it isn't "repetitive"? Because singing it louder doesn't change the fact that he still says "betterman"

That's true. The one repetitive part is the very first line of the second verse, so about ten seconds of the song. But for me, the drums kicking in at the end of his sentence marks it as something different.

And its not just EV singing the chorus louder. The background music is completely different. The feel and rhythm is completely different. Its a new twist on the same idea.

THE BACKGROUND MUSIC IS NO DIFFERENT HOLY FUCKING SHIT I ALKSDJFAKL;SDJF;ANC;D;SDF

Are you a robot? The background music is no different???

You can't tell the difference between a delicate EV singing with only an organ and a light guitar, and a rocking, bouncing, electric guitar with drums?

a new twist on the same idea? As in, adding drums and bass? Geezes. What geniuses!

....yes. You guys are so strange. WHERE THE HECK IS THE LINK TO ONE POP/ROCK SONG THAT HAS A NEW TWIST ON EACH SECTION WITHOUT EVER REPEATING SO MUCH AS A CHORUS?

Im still waiting.

[mikejasond]

And let's put it this way. I would call betterman standard if after the second chorus they did a little solo and went right back to the same chorus. Instead they continue to add something new.

And yes drums and bass and distorted guitars is very different from a song where a tender voice sings alone with an organ.

in fact it makes a MUCH BIGGER DIFFERENCE than changing the chords would.

I really feel like we're looking at two paintings, and you guys are pointing and saying 'well they both use blue paint so they are the same'

[bodysnatcher]

....using the same 3 chords does not mean its repetitive? Because there are other aspects of music besides just the chords

Of course it means it’s repetirive! The things happening outside of those 3 chords are nothing special on their own. Mike plays a pretty standard solo. Stone plays different variations of the chords Ed is playing on the acoustic. This is Rock Band Song Writing 101. It just works though on this song. The stars aligned for it.

Ok so can somebody please link me to a rock song like this, that is 3-4 minutes long, and never once repeats the same section exactly ?

[bodysnatcher]

shit, nevermind, that's under 3 minutes and they say "happiness is a warm gun" more than a couple of times. DANGIT.

[mikejasond]

I would honestly argue that sounds more progressive than a standard pop/rock song but yes lets hear more of the songs that remain unique from start to finish - it does suit that criteria.

[bodysnatcher]

I DID IT, GUYS!!!

[mikejasond]

Oh I did think of another one that only repeats a tiny bit but makes up for it in the second hafl.



But a lot of these songs really sound like prog songs to me.

cant find one that sounds as mainstream pop/rock as Betterman.

Happiness is a warm gun and this song seem pretty obviously progressive.

Whereas the charm (and genius, really) of Betterman is the way it combines an interesting structure with a simple mainstream sound

[Rangi Guy]

I DID IT, GUYS!!!

[mikejasond]

Another song with a great buildup but unable to do it in the guise of a 4 minute pop rock song.



GnR was very good for unique songs IMO (MOST of their songs have a unique structure) though they didn't manage to do it in a 4 minute pop version like Betterman. As for rock though, they manage to stand out a lot.

[mikejasond]

One from Chinese democracy. Axl Rose really had a knack for structuring a song with build.

[ledvedderman]

Raise your hand if you saw this taking a GnR turn, somehow...

[Strat]

Another song with a great buildup but unable to do it in the guise of a 4 minute pop rock song.



GnR was very good for unique songs IMO (MOST of their songs have a unique structure) though they didn't manage to do it in a 4 minute pop version like Betterman. As for rock though, they manage to stand out a lot.

See, here, there are actually many different parts to the song.

[mikejasond]

Another song with a great buildup but unable to do it in the guise of a 4 minute pop rock song.



GnR was very good for unique songs IMO (MOST of their songs have a unique structure) though they didn't manage to do it in a 4 minute pop version like Betterman. As for rock though, they manage to stand out a lot.

See, here, there are actually many different parts to the song.

What's so impressive is that Betterman manages to give me similar feelings while doing so in the guise of a simple 4-minute pop song. Estranged is obviously an epic and it looks like an epic. The fact Betterman gives me a similar feeling while disguised as a simple little song is so masterful to me

[mikejasond]

Raise your hand if you saw this taking a GnR turn, somehow...

They were my favorite band before PJ precisely because of how they were able to craft songs that felt like little journeys. Sweet Child o Mine sounds like a regular classic rock song but that last minute or so is extremely different and the riff itself is unique and the solo phenomenal.

[chewm]

I was so happy when I saw that this thread had 4 new pages.

And this was even better than what I expected.

[bodysnatcher]

strangely, it kept repeating itself, unlike Better Man

[PHATJ]

It’s impossible to debate the merits of anything when your arguments are 100% based on how something specifically makes you feel. That basis allows you to argue any number of absurdities with no reasonable way to disprove your cockamamie hypothesis.

[Birds in Hell]

It’s impossible to debate the merits of anything when your arguments are 100% based on how something specifically makes you feel. That basis allows you to argue any number of absurdities with no reasonable way to disprove your cockamamie hypothesis.

What else do you think people should judge the merits of art on?

MJD honestly comes out of this thread looking fine, you guys are kind of being jerks. He’s being very generous and patient despite being openly (and unfairly) mocked for his opinions.