Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi

[stip]

that mushroom cloud coming off of scarif was pretty excellent. The planet destruction was nice, but still a bit disaster movie 101.

[daft twat]

Here is the one thing I can't get past if it's okay to not like the movie despite several RM heavyweights loving it (or convincing themselves they do after 5 or 6 viewings):

In RotJ, Luke was sacrificing his life for the small chance he could save his father. I don't believe the same person would then even for a second think about murdering his nephew in his sleep because he sees darkness in him. Even if I could be convinced the Dark Side is just that powerful, no way Luke just runs and hides, waiting to die in peace he doesn't deserve. He would spend his remaining days trying to right his wrong, trying to save his sister's son. And then the formerly Puritan-dry farm boy spent decades of isolation developing a really sarcastic sense of humor after ruining multiple lives. Who gives a shit if he's powerful or got to look at 2 goddam suns when he died? Subjectively, I think Rian got Luke waaaaay wrong, and that's why despite liking a lot about the movie, I hate it. When it's finally run its course at the b.o. or on dvd, I expect Mark will express similar displeasure. Again.

This is a really good point

That point assumes that Luke was never conflicted, never had doubts, never wondered if it would be easier. Hell, he has a whole DUEL against the father he is trying to save, and comes seconds away from striking him down in anger. Hell, he probably would have done it if the emperor hadn't overplayed his hand by goading him. Luke's power comes from making the right decision in the end, not from always being perfect.

And there is nothing in Luke's life that, in terms of mental trauma, comes close to what Luke experiences with the Kylo's fall, the death of his students, etc.


But while I disagree with you, that is a worthwhile argument made by referencing the existing texts and drawing a plausible interpretation from them. I think it's less interesting than what they did (and denies the character any room for further growth),and I don't share that interpretation of the character, but it makes sense and is thoughtful.


And I WISH I've seen it 5-6 times already. I can't fucking wait. I've almost gone out every night since Friday to see it again. Tomorrow, though

What about finding out Vader was his father? Or watching Ben die? Finding his aunt and uncle's charred bodies? The cave on Dagobah? He'd seen some shit.

He freaked out when Ben died and almost ruined their escape, and tried to kill himself when he found out about Vader. And the cave was a failure. Luke has a history of overreacting

In A New Hope and Empire, yes. But he grew. And he reacted. He didn't run away.

I also don't believe he was trying to kill himself in Empire. He might have been, but his face when he let go seemed like he knew he wasn't about to die.

[dimejinky99]

Jesus, dime, walk it back a notch

Well if we’re gonna get into name calling he’s the only one that actually did that. Plus I’ve been banned for more worthy and far less statements.

LMAO what? Don’t be a pussy, own your words, dork

x

[LoathedVermin72]

Here's a question. Was the light speed kamikaze attack the most striking visual effect in Star Wars history?

Not even close.

go on...

I think it’s easy to lose sight of how revolutionary and influential the previous SW movies were. Lucas created a space opera that was more breathless and seamless than any movies previously seen. The visual effects of the OT were frontier filmmaking. How could anything in TLJ even hope to match the simple sight of seeing a lightsaber ignite for the first time?

From a historical standpoint absolutely. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. But looking with 2017 eyes

So a Star Wars film only succeeds if it lives up to the hardwired double fastened qualifying standard of the original trilogy. Right.

Can you even read?

[stip]

Here is the one thing I can't get past if it's okay to not like the movie despite several RM heavyweights loving it (or convincing themselves they do after 5 or 6 viewings):

In RotJ, Luke was sacrificing his life for the small chance he could save his father. I don't believe the same person would then even for a second think about murdering his nephew in his sleep because he sees darkness in him. Even if I could be convinced the Dark Side is just that powerful, no way Luke just runs and hides, waiting to die in peace he doesn't deserve. He would spend his remaining days trying to right his wrong, trying to save his sister's son. And then the formerly Puritan-dry farm boy spent decades of isolation developing a really sarcastic sense of humor after ruining multiple lives. Who gives a shit if he's powerful or got to look at 2 goddam suns when he died? Subjectively, I think Rian got Luke waaaaay wrong, and that's why despite liking a lot about the movie, I hate it. When it's finally run its course at the b.o. or on dvd, I expect Mark will express similar displeasure. Again.

This is a really good point

That point assumes that Luke was never conflicted, never had doubts, never wondered if it would be easier. Hell, he has a whole DUEL against the father he is trying to save, and comes seconds away from striking him down in anger. Hell, he probably would have done it if the emperor hadn't overplayed his hand by goading him. Luke's power comes from making the right decision in the end, not from always being perfect.

And there is nothing in Luke's life that, in terms of mental trauma, comes close to what Luke experiences with the Kylo's fall, the death of his students, etc.


But while I disagree with you, that is a worthwhile argument made by referencing the existing texts and drawing a plausible interpretation from them. I think it's less interesting than what they did (and denies the character any room for further growth),and I don't share that interpretation of the character, but it makes sense and is thoughtful.


And I WISH I've seen it 5-6 times already. I can't fucking wait. I've almost gone out every night since Friday to see it again. Tomorrow, though

What about finding out Vader was his father? Or watching Ben die? Finding his aunt and uncle's charred bodies? The cave on Dagobah? He'd seen some shit.

He freaked out when Ben died and almost ruined their escape, and tried to kill himself when he found out about Vader. And the cave was a failure. Luke has a history of overreacting

In A New Hope and Empire, yes. But he grew. And he reacted. He didn't run away.

I also don't believe he was trying to kill himself in Empire. He might have been, but his face when he let go seemed like he knew he wasn't about to die.

He was seconds away from turning to the darkside in a fit of rage in Jedi.
And it's been a little while but I am pretty sure the look on his face in Empire is someone who has given up

Luke becomes a saint in the EU books, but not in the movies. He's pretty flawed, but rises above when it counts

[dimejinky99]

Here's a question. Was the light speed kamikaze attack the most striking visual effect in Star Wars history?

Not even close.

go on...

I think it’s easy to lose sight of how revolutionary and influential the previous SW movies were. Lucas created a space opera that was more breathless and seamless than any movies previously seen. The visual effects of the OT were frontier filmmaking. How could anything in TLJ even hope to match the simple sight of seeing a lightsaber ignite for the first time?

From a historical standpoint absolutely. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. But looking with 2017 eyes

So a Star Wars film only succeeds if it lives up to the hardwired double fastened qualifying standard of the original trilogy. Right.

Can you even read?

You missed the point.

Hardcore fans to regular cinema goers will never be that impressed again. Ever. But they hold Star Wars up to a level where they demand that new level every time. It’s impossible.

[daft twat]

Here is the one thing I can't get past if it's okay to not like the movie despite several RM heavyweights loving it (or convincing themselves they do after 5 or 6 viewings):

In RotJ, Luke was sacrificing his life for the small chance he could save his father. I don't believe the same person would then even for a second think about murdering his nephew in his sleep because he sees darkness in him. Even if I could be convinced the Dark Side is just that powerful, no way Luke just runs and hides, waiting to die in peace he doesn't deserve. He would spend his remaining days trying to right his wrong, trying to save his sister's son. And then the formerly Puritan-dry farm boy spent decades of isolation developing a really sarcastic sense of humor after ruining multiple lives. Who gives a shit if he's powerful or got to look at 2 goddam suns when he died? Subjectively, I think Rian got Luke waaaaay wrong, and that's why despite liking a lot about the movie, I hate it. When it's finally run its course at the b.o. or on dvd, I expect Mark will express similar displeasure. Again.

This is a really good point

That point assumes that Luke was never conflicted, never had doubts, never wondered if it would be easier. Hell, he has a whole DUEL against the father he is trying to save, and comes seconds away from striking him down in anger. Hell, he probably would have done it if the emperor hadn't overplayed his hand by goading him. Luke's power comes from making the right decision in the end, not from always being perfect.

And there is nothing in Luke's life that, in terms of mental trauma, comes close to what Luke experiences with the Kylo's fall, the death of his students, etc.


But while I disagree with you, that is a worthwhile argument made by referencing the existing texts and drawing a plausible interpretation from them. I think it's less interesting than what they did (and denies the character any room for further growth),and I don't share that interpretation of the character, but it makes sense and is thoughtful.


And I WISH I've seen it 5-6 times already. I can't fucking wait. I've almost gone out every night since Friday to see it again. Tomorrow, though

What about finding out Vader was his father? Or watching Ben die? Finding his aunt and uncle's charred bodies? The cave on Dagobah? He'd seen some shit.

He freaked out when Ben died and almost ruined their escape, and tried to kill himself when he found out about Vader. And the cave was a failure. Luke has a history of overreacting

In A New Hope and Empire, yes. But he grew. And he reacted. He didn't run away.

I also don't believe he was trying to kill himself in Empire. He might have been, but his face when he let go seemed like he knew he wasn't about to die.

He was seconds away from turning to the darkside in a fit of rage in Jedi.
And it's been a little while but I am pretty sure the look on his face in Empire is someone who has given up

Luke becomes a saint in the EU books, but not in the movies. He's pretty flawed, but rises above when it counts

Wasn't it because the Emperor threatened his sister? Kind of an anything for family sort of person, I think.

[stip]

it was a pretty weak threat, given everything else that had already happened. She was dead anyone. He was pretty easily goaded and prone to the dark side (which is in his blood)

[dimejinky99]

it was a pretty weak threat, given everything else that had already happened. She was dead anyone. He was pretty easily goaded and prone to the dark side (which is in his blood)

Thinking about it it could be a cool appeasement if the Legends/EU crowd to have kylo face a mutiny and power struggle in 9 from an heir or clone of Palpatine come to take the throne. It would divide loyalty down the middle in the first order and their historic belief and origin and give them an extra dimension we’ve never seen the empire / first order have

[daft twat]

it was a pretty weak threat, given everything else that had already happened. She was dead anyone. He was pretty easily goaded and prone to the dark side (which is in his blood)

Easily goaded? So not the type to stand by for years. He had to feel the disturbance of the planet wiped out in TFA. Did he just shake it off and head down to the ocean to have suckle of a sea donkey?

[LoathedVermin72]

it was a pretty weak threat, given everything else that had already happened. She was dead anyone. He was pretty easily goaded and prone to the dark side (which is in his blood)

Easily goaded? So not the type to stand by for years. He had to feel the disturbance of the planet wiped out in TFA. Did he just shake it off and head down to the ocean to have suckle of a sea donkey?

[stip]

At that point he had given up. He also says in the film that he had cut himself off from the force. Rey specifically mentions she can't sense him. He may not have noticed. He can't even sense Chewie


And when Rey brings it up his response is point out that there's nothing he can do. He can't go out and use his lightsaber to murder the entire first order. He's had enough. The world's problems aren't his anymore.

[daft twat]

At that point he had given up. He also says in the film that he had cut himself off from the force. Rey specifically mentions she can't sense him. He may not have noticed. He can't even sense Chewie


And when Rey brings it up his response is point out that there's nothing he can do. He can't go out and use his lightsaber to murder the entire first order. He's had enough. The world's problems aren't his anymore.

Did he say he cut himself off from the Force? I guess I missed that. I didn't think it worked that way since, as he taught Rey, it's all around us. I would think you could actively not harness its power if you chose, but I wouldn't think you could just shut it out, not to the point of not feeling millions or billions of lives extinguished at once.

Anyway, we're going around in circles, but I appreciate the discussion. I keep hoping someone will make a point that makes Luke okay for me. One of my best friends who I went with to the movie loved it as well. We've talked at length. So far the only result is The Last Jedi poster that hung in my classroom for 4 months now hangs in his.

[stip]

Rey tells him that he did it, that she couldn't sense him, so I assume that's how it works but I'm just guessing at the mechanics.

For me where Luke started from makes his final act of heroism all the more powerful. In the end he comes to grips with his failure, makes his peace with himself, thwarts the first order, and reignites the legend of Luke Skywalker, which is more powerful than the man (as this conversation itself attests ).

So he ends up in exactly the place you want him to be, and, as in the OT, it's a status he has to earn.

[Strat]

Dime and LV will you please stop fucking talking to each other? And Dime, its okay for others to not like this movie. And LV, knock it off. Nobody is beneath you because we have different opinions on what makes a good movie. We get it, you're a fucking expert and we are mere mortals just lapping up our own spit as we watch STar Wars.

Dime hated Rogue 1.

Dime, dont egg him on because you sound like an idiot and an ass too.

Its okay if someone loves the film, its okay if someone hates it. Geezes christ, act like fucking adults. Its a goddamn movie.

Daft - Luke is still Luke. he still saved the day. Try starting there. Maybe you'll come around. If not, there are going to be a shit ton more star wars you might find exciting on top of all the wonderful films and stories we have!

I hated lukes story at first too. I have certainly come around on it and ultimately - he's still my childhood hero.

[Strat]

RM has become fucking awful.

[Rangi Guy]

Was it Pearl Jam or Star Wars that ultimately tore us apart though?

[Strat]

Was it Pearl Jam or Star Wars that ultimately tore us apart though?

It was dev.

[daft twat]

RM has become fucking awful.

Oh, stop. It has not changed at all. It's just fine. You know what's awesome about it? I love Pearl Jam. I also love Star Wars. My kids actually asked me if I like Pearl Jam or Star Wars more. And here is a place where there are multiple people who also love both of those things. I don't know anyone outside of RM who loves Pearl Jam and Star Wars. I have friends who love one or the other, but not both. But I found you guys/gays dime! And that's why RM isn't awful. It's still working. It's the best thing about the internet.

[Leatherhead]

Luke has flirted with the dark side all along, he freaking force chokes a guy in rotj. The fleeting thought he has about striking Ben down while he sleeps is no surprise. Luke has a ton of weight on his shoulders, and is afraid of what might happen if Ben goes full darkside.

Leia's space walking didn't bother me at all and doesn't seem like that big of a display of power. So she barely kept herself from dieing and pulled herself to the ship in 0 gravity, big woop.