Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi

[epilogue]

Because it’s so shallow!

[stip]

a little nautical humor for you, RM

[EJ]

Because it’s so shallow!

Is that a murder bear?

[epilogue]

Because it’s so shallow!

Is that a murder bear?

Oh, he slays. Knocks 'em dead, daily.

[epilogue]

I'm pleasantly surprised by how much Porg ... if not love than approval... I've seen. I fully expected erryone to full on hate those things.

[E.H. Ruddock]

I'm pleasantly surprised by how much Porg ... if not love than approval... I've seen. I fully expected erryone to full on hate those things.

yeah there were way bigger problems than those things in this movie

Spoiler: show

[epilogue]

I'm pleasantly surprised by how much Porg ... if not love than approval... I've seen. I fully expected erryone to full on hate those things.

yeah there were way bigger problems than those things in this movie

Spoiler: show

[blueviper]

I enjoyed the Porgs in TLJ.

[E.H. Ruddock]

I enjoyed the Porgs in TLJ.

I actually liked the sound they made

[blueviper]

the ot is full of stupid shit with more than enough wonderful moments to make you not care. they would wilt under the same level of scruitny.

Examples??

[blueviper]

You're not alone, EJ. There's a huge split among viewers. It'll be interesting to see if this is really "the new Empire" in that it's the follow up film that everybody hates upon release and then comes around to love and revere.

I loved it. It's certainly flawed. And there is some outright stupid shit in the movie, for sure. But there's dumb shit in every Star Wars movie. I think this will end up settling in my top five SW films for sure. Might even make that top spot. We'll see.

But after one viewing, I'm a fan.

What dumb shit is in each of the OT movies?

You think the OT movies are flawless movies with no objectionable content? You don't think there is a single misstep or anything kinda of ridiculous in any of them?

I know they aren't perfect, I was just wanting to know what you think are these moments.

I actually think the majority of Star Wars is pretty sketchy. The Empire Strikes Back is an incredible movie. But I think Star Wars is middling at best. It's a hackneyed spaghetti western set in space and it's full of shopworn tropes and melodrama. But I enjoy those things about it when they really work. Like Stip said, there's a lot to make you overlook the really bad stuff. And Return of the Jedi is basically garbage. It was the TFA rehash before the TFA rehash was cool. It's basically the first movie but with murder bears and more Han Solo camera winks. I think it ultimately works because the final Luke/Vader show down is so powerful and there is some top notch editing going on.

I'm being deadly serious when I say that I wasn't what one would call a "fan" of Star Wars really until The Force Awakens and then I doubled down with Rogue One which I think might be a true masterpiece. I enjoy Star Wars for what it is. The OT is a live action cartoon that's inspired by Flash Gordon and does a great job of myth building and re-imagining ancient mythology while expertly utilizing the teachings/research of Joseph Campbell to a mostly enduring and positive result. But of the first three films, only Empire is what I would call a good movie. And that's got weird, dumb shit in it too.

But really, the thing that I think elevates the OT beyond just b-movies is Lucas' technological achievements and (most importantly) Williams' outstanding score.

Ok, but that didn't answer my question.

What (to you) is the "dumb shit" in the OT? I'm not asking about the PT because that's a given.

[blueviper]

I'm legitimately curious. It might help me understand why we don't see eye to eye with TLJ.

[bune]

Just got back from seeing it for the third time. It was my brother's first time, and he loved it. He said he'll sleep on it and let me know more detailed thoughts tomorrow

Also, Rey/Kylo vs the guards in Snoke's throne room might be my favourite SW moment ever.

Would love to hear your thoughts post sleep.

Rey kylo and Snoke in the throne room is the best sequence in all Star Wars for me. No even small doubts about it l. No other sequence in Star Wars is built and painted and portrayed so perfectly. It’s stunning.

My brother just messaged me his thoughts, and they seem consistent with the public reaction. Overall, he absolutely loved it and really appreciated the changing of the guard to focus on the new characters going forward.

He was shocked at Snoke's death, but he can appreciate it.

The throne room scene blew him away.

He hated Leia in space moment. I explained about how the expanded material stuff shows Leia to be quite powerful, but he still thought it was a reach to have it in the film.

When all the guns shoot Luke, and the dust settles and he's still stood there, my brother laughed and said "fuck off" in the cinema. I couldn't help but smile because I knew he'd love the reveal of Luke still being on Ahch-To. Sure enough, he absolutely loved that Luke projected himself from the island.

Third time for me, and I got way more goosebumps this time. Yoda made me almost tear up. It was very moving, funny, and his final line, "We are what they grow beyond" is one of the greatest Star Wars lines ever. No question about it. What a poignant way to sum things up. And then the last shot of them from behind, sat together watching the tree in flames. That whole scene with Yoda is magic

The throne room scene is beyond perfect. Snoke is insane levels of confident, creepy, and powerful but in his hubris he misreads Kylo and it backfires. One little thing I LOVE LOVE LOVE, is after the lighstaber stabs Snoke, Kylo summons it back and it cuts right through Snoke and flies towards him and all we see is Rey's arm raise up and catch it. The music swells, they look at each other like they want to fuck, and we Kylo ignites his lightsaber out of frame but you can see the red light up his face. Then, you know they're about to fuck shit up in a major way. Fuck, I'll keep going to see the film just for this sequence.

That's the exact reason they don't put that shit in the film more. I think it's dumb that there are fans of the movies who look at fans of the everything else and say, "that's a bridge too far". Just too fucking dumb.

[stip]

the ot is full of stupid shit with more than enough wonderful moments to make you not care. they would wilt under the same level of scruitny.

Examples??

i posted a hoth example in another thread. luke’s general whininess in the first two movies, the nonsensical timeline in empire, the stupid convoluted jaba plan, the absence of an arc for han in jedi, the rebels having time to domesticate ton-tons on hoth but are unable to get their ships to work until the next day when they are convienently needed, the fact that anyone would program a droid w 3pos personality (which I love), the design of the werewolf and devil creatures in mos eisley, the fact that the empire doesnt scan for droids at the start of a new hope, the geography of the first trench run...

I turn my brain off for these things because i am comfortable ignoring them in my space adventure, but lets not pretend they dont exist if we are going to criticize them in other movies

[stip]

the OT is simple but resonant characters and themes and epic set pieces with a surrounding mythology that works because you dont question it or look too closely (nor does the trilogy)

the prequels confused plot with theme, answered questions that didnt need answering (and impoverished the universe in the process) forgot to include real characters (for the most part) but did expand the scope of the galaxy (largely a plus)

the new movies (tfa, r1, tlj) return to the strengths of the OT with new characters, themes, and set pieces, almost universally more sophisticated than the OT. what it cant do for older audiences (usually) is recapture the magic of discovery and creation of the basic vocabulary of your imagination. that already exists and cant be recreated. But it can and has been for younger audiences, which has saved star wars from being ‘the thing your dad likes’

[blueviper]

the OT is simple but resonant characters and themes and epic set pieces with a surrounding mythology that works because you dont question it or look too closely (nor does the trilogy)

the prequels confused plot with theme, answered questions that didnt need answering (and impoverished the universe in the process) forgot to include real characters (for the most part) but did expand the scope of the galaxy (largely a plus)

the new movies (tfa, r1, tlj) return to the strengths of the OT with new characters, themes, and set pieces, almost universally more sophisticated than the OT. what it cant do for older audiences (usually) is recapture the magic of discovery and creation of the basic vocabulary of your imagination. that already exists and cant be recreated. But it can and has been for younger audiences, which has saved star wars from being ‘the thing your dad likes’

Great post. I pretty much agree with everything you said. You encapsulate each era of SW perfectly. I just disagree that the formula (the properties you stated, not the specific story beats) needs to be changed to appeal to a new audience. Adults and children both enjoyed the OT, without having to pander to one age group.

But you made a great point. I just have a hard time with TLJ at the moment. Something with the structure and characterization isn't clicking with me.

[stip]

that’s also why (to me) the luke critiques feel a bit misguided. they strike me as based more on the vision of luke/jedi that existed in our childhood imagination (carried forward)and was reified in the EU, rather than the character that actually exists in the three movies. thats not to say other interpretations of luke couldnt exist or be equally plausible, but the TLJ version is both consistent with the lore that exists and is the more interesting story. it gives the character somewhere to go, explores the idea and disconnect between our myths and reality, AND gives us the rejuvenated heroes ending we wanted him to have

[bune]

See, the problem with the prequels at this point is that Rogue One exists. The Death Star is in the prequels as being built by the insect guys but they're never brought up in R1. Unless I missed something? Maybe a crawl would have helped explain how they went from them to the Empire.

Or I could just read the wiki. I'm off!

[spike]

I enjoyed the Porgs in TLJ.

I actually liked the sound they made

porgs make any movie better. check it out:

Spoiler: show

[bune]

See, the problem with the prequels at this point is that Rogue One exists. The Death Star is in the prequels as being built by the insect guys but they're never brought up in R1. Unless I missed something? Maybe a crawl would have helped explain how they went from them to the Empire.

Or I could just read the wiki. I'm off!

White House petition[edit]

In 2012–13, a proposal on the White House's website urging the United States government to build a real Death Star as an economic stimulus and job creation measure gained more than 30,000 signatures, enough to qualify for an official response. The official (tongue-in-cheek) response was released in January 2013:[45] the cost of building a real Death Star has been estimated at $850 quadrillion by the Lehigh University, or about 13,000 times the amount of mineable resources on Earth, while the International Business Times cited a Centives economics blog calculation that, at current rates of steel production, the Death Star would not be ready for more than 833,000 years.[46] The White House response also stated "the Administration does not support blowing up planets," and questioned funding a weapon "with a fundamental flaw that can be exploited by a one-man starship" as reasons for denying the petition.[45][47][48]

Remember when the government could have fun?