Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi

[Anders]

Really enjoyed this read. Stip I think you will too

https://filmcrithulk.blog/2017/12/15/th ... star-wars/

Funny. I disagree with every conclusion in that article, apart from what it said about JJ.

where do you disagree?

Everything apart from the JJ bit. The list in short words:
1. The writer knows the Johnson's so is biased. Wouldn't say anything if she/he didn't love it. Now can't stop talking about how much she/he loves it.
2. The writer thought TFA was hollow and didn't like it very much. Goes on to explain how JJ works, and shares some interesting insight into his process, that makes a lot of sense. Then the writer says that TLJ throws all the questions from TFA off a cliff, and in a way that's really funny and really important, and just great.
3. Talks about filmmaking in general, says that TLJ has great build up and great payoff. Points to the Poe vs Laura Dern arc. Seems to love the silent cut. Says Luke and Mark Hamill are perfect in the movie. Says this arc is the most important in the movie, because it shows the acceptance of and learning from failure.
4. Goes to the Skywalker-issue, and how Disney is turning it into the whole everyone can be a Jedi thinking. She/he thinks the Rey reveal is perfect with no parents. There's basically nothing special about being a Skywalker.
5. Monte Carlo planet: is the most thematically important because it’s where the entire Skywalker point made above comes into focus. No, not just in the clear criticism of high society and war profiteering, but deeper within the sights of nameless young children who are put under the thumb of the world. And who, within them so innately carry the understanding of the horrors of that world, and thus so tangibly know the simple, inescapable ways for it to be better. And so, within that simple, final speech about what really matters in this big old universe that we share, it’s not about Skywalkers or whose bloodline is most powerful or whose dad can beat up your dad… it’s about that equally simple, final image. The force belongs to everyone.

[Anders]

My thoughts about it:

1. Not worth saying much more about. Admitting you are biased doesn't strengten the argument, but at least you are honest.
2. I can understand where the writer is coming from with TFA, and it goes to what she/he writes about JJ. I think it is something you can love or hate about JJ, but it's a valid point. I felt it very clearly with his Star Trek movies, which I both loved but also had the aspects from JJ that the she/he talks about. The mystery box.
3. I clearly don't agree that TLJ has great payoff, especially in the Poe/Laura Dern arc, or in anything Poe is involved in. The silent cut was interesting, and Hamill does do a great job. Learning from failure is absolutely a good lesson, but I don't think Luke in TLJ is a good lesson. I certainly wouldn't want to learn from my failures by doing what Luke does.
4. The Skywalker issue. This is interesting. Teaching kids that everyone can be a Jedi, is typically Disney. I understand the marketing reasons why, and and in its core it's also a beautiful sentiment, but it makes for poor storytelling. I don't think it goes against previous Star Wars, in that we don't know the background of Kenobi, Yoda, Jinn etc. Everyhing points to the fact that you can become a Jedi no matter where you are from, or what planet you are born on, but told in a much more beautiful and easy way than in TLJ. It's sort of a take on the American Dream. But this movie hammers it into our heads, that no one is special, and so everyone is special. It should mean something to be a Skywalker in this saga. There is nothing wrong about that. That's not elitist, it's their story. Not everyone can be like them.
5. She/he writes that the Monte Carlo planet is the most important partly because it shows war profiteering, and partly because it shows nameless young children who are put under the thumb of the world. Please. It's Star Wars. Showing people fighting from the ground up like Luke in ANH is great, but making it into some political thing is just stupid.

[Anders]

I’d like me you like the music, here’s some educated high minded shit to wrap your head around and break out the dictionary for

Williams is fantastic. He does a really great job in this film as always.

[stip]

just to reiterate, there is a huge difference between saying anyone could become a jedi and everyone could become a jedi. TLJ says the former, not the later

[BootsToAsses]

just to reiterate, there is a huge difference between saying anyone could become a jedi and everyone could become a jedi. TLJ says the former, not the later

I was just about to say the same thing.

Also - finish your fucking guided tour already!

[stip]

The only two things I have on my plate this weekend is take down the Xmas tree and finish that thread

[BootsToAsses]

The only two things I have on my plate this weekend is take down the Xmas tree and finish that thread

I can't believe you left your tree up this long.

I didn't even put one up this time

[Let's all laugh at Rangers]

Yeah I meant the kid at the end, I think it's young Rey?

On the couple of pages since:

In TESB, Yoda tells Luke about how the force is in everyone, this is nothing new.

In one segment of the film, where wealth comes from and the arms trade is mentioned in about 30 seconds each, making it a combined minute give or take. It makes a good point without dominating the film with it.

[dimejinky99]

just to reiterate, there is a huge difference between saying anyone could become a jedi and everyone could become a jedi. TLJ says the former, not the later

Also - finish your fucking guided tour already!

This.


Also confused as to how so many people think this film is saying ‘anyone can use the force and become a jedi’. It isn’t saying that at all.
Luke’s point was there are many different ways to view the force and the Jedi isn’t the only way or the true way.
They really set this up in his stories in the legends of Luke Skywalker book. He’s learned there are countless species across the galaxy that have their own names for and ways into the force.

[Anders]

Yeah I meant the kid at the end, I think it's young Rey?

I thought it was a kid on the casino planet, and certainly not a back in time shot.

[Anders]

just to reiterate, there is a huge difference between saying anyone could become a jedi and everyone could become a jedi. TLJ says the former, not the later

All the movies have said that anyone could become a jedi, that is nothing new.

[dimejinky99]

just to reiterate, there is a huge difference between saying anyone could become a jedi and everyone could become a jedi. TLJ says the former, not the later

All the movies have said that anyone could become a jedi, that is nothing new.

You’ve been watching different movies
Anyone can’t become a Jedi. Force sensitive children were taken /sent to the Jedi academy to become Jedi.
They even had some sort of tech where they knew where all the force sensitive children in the galaxy were being born

[Anders]

just to reiterate, there is a huge difference between saying anyone could become a jedi and everyone could become a jedi. TLJ says the former, not the later

All the movies have said that anyone could become a jedi, that is nothing new.

You’ve been watching different movies
Anyone can’t become a Jedi. Force sensitive children were taken /sent to the Jedi academy to become Jedi.
They even had some sort of tech where they knew where all the force sensitive children in the galaxy were being born

I don't see that what you are saying goes against what I said.

Stip says that there is a big difference between saying anyone could become a jedi, and everyone could become a jedi. In all previous movies anyone could become a jedi, but not everyone.

Anyone could be a force sensitive child and be asked to go to the Jedi academy.

[dimejinky99]

Ok.

[stip]

just to reiterate, there is a huge difference between saying anyone could become a jedi and everyone could become a jedi. TLJ says the former, not the later

All the movies have said that anyone could become a jedi, that is nothing new.

You’ve been watching different movies
Anyone can’t become a Jedi. Force sensitive children were taken /sent to the Jedi academy to become Jedi.
They even had some sort of tech where they knew where all the force sensitive children in the galaxy were being born

I don't see that what you are saying goes against what I said.

Stip says that there is a big difference between saying anyone could become a jedi, and everyone could become a jedi. In all previous movies anyone could become a jedi, but not everyone.

Anyone could be a force sensitive child and be asked to go to the Jedi academy.

People have been saying (perhaps unintentionally) in this thread that EVERYONE can be a jedi is a message in this film. I was clarifying that.

And while the idea that anyone could be force sensitive has been in the movies since the begining, starting with Empire and the self-conscious emphasis on the skywalker family, and really blown up in the prequels, there has been a tendency to assume that anyone we focus on needs to be someone special - there was an increasingly aristocratic bent to star wars at odds with the spirit of A New Hope

[stip]

Yeah I meant the kid at the end, I think it's young Rey?

On the couple of pages since:

In TESB, Yoda tells Luke about how the force is in everyone, this is nothing new.

In one segment of the film, where wealth comes from and the arms trade is mentioned in about 30 seconds each, making it a combined minute give or take. It makes a good point without dominating the film with it.

That's definitely not young Rey. It's the kid we meet in the Canto Bight sequence. They're also telling the story of Luke facing down The First Order (the makeshift toys are arrayed like the Walkers that were shooting at him) so it is happening chronologically after the primary events of TLJ

[stip]

although it is in the spirit of Rey, who clearly dreamed about the rebels growing up on Jakku (she's got the x-wing doll, the pilot helmet, etc as toys)

[LetMeSleep]

Those initial shots of Rey while she's searching through the crashed destroyer are sublime.

[dimejinky99]

Those initial shots of Rey while she's searching through the crashed destroyer are sublime.

Really are. She’s on screen for ages (is it 15 minutes?) before she says anything and in that time her whole world has been explained to you

[Anders]

just to reiterate, there is a huge difference between saying anyone could become a jedi and everyone could become a jedi. TLJ says the former, not the later

All the movies have said that anyone could become a jedi, that is nothing new.

You’ve been watching different movies
Anyone can’t become a Jedi. Force sensitive children were taken /sent to the Jedi academy to become Jedi.
They even had some sort of tech where they knew where all the force sensitive children in the galaxy were being born

I don't see that what you are saying goes against what I said.

Stip says that there is a big difference between saying anyone could become a jedi, and everyone could become a jedi. In all previous movies anyone could become a jedi, but not everyone.

Anyone could be a force sensitive child and be asked to go to the Jedi academy.

People have been saying (perhaps unintentionally) in this thread that EVERYONE can be a jedi is a message in this film. I was clarifying that.

And while the idea that anyone could be force sensitive has been in the movies since the begining, starting with Empire and the self-conscious emphasis on the skywalker family, and really blown up in the prequels, there has been a tendency to assume that anyone we focus on needs to be someone special - there was an increasingly aristocratic bent to star wars at odds with the spirit of A New Hope

I disagree with your intepretation here, both of the movies having an increasing aristocratic bend, or that whatever has happened has been at odds with what happened in A New Hope. Leia was a princess, and Luke was the son of a great warrior. By 1980 Luke was the son of Darth Vader, and by 1983 he and Leia were siblings.

Luke: No, my father didn't fight in the Clone Wars. He was a navigator on a spice freighter.
Obi-Wan: That's what your uncle told you. He didn't hold with your father's ideals; he felt he should've stayed here and not gotten involved.
Luke: You fought in the Clone Wars?
Obi-Wan: Yes. I was once a Jedi knight, the same as your father.
Luke: I wish I'd known him.
Obi-Wan: He was the best star pilot in the galaxy, and a cunning warrior. I understand that you've become quite a good pilot yourself. And he was a good friend.