Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi

[Anders]

I can’t believe they let this guy write this movie whatever way he wanted. No one doubts that the Jedi made terrible mistakes, but this is the answer:

"He's taken himself out of the fight, he's sitting on that island in exile. I know the Luke I grew up with is not a coward, he's not sitting out there hiding, so I had to come up with a reason he was there that was active and positive, and something I could genuinely believe I could think in his shoes," says Johnson. "And the thing that came to me that seemed to make sense to me is this notion that he seems this hero worship of him and of the Jedi that is detrimental to the galaxy. The universe has put its faith in its false god of the Jedi and they need to forget the religion so they can get back to god, that light can rise from a worthier source. And because he's the last Jedi and a symbol of that, it then becomes this self-sacrifice he has to do to take himself out of it when he knows his friends are dying, when he knows the thing he'd like to do is get back in the fight. He's taken the weight of the world on his shoulders by taking himself out of the equation so that the Jedi can die out. The end of the movie is him embracing the part of the past that the present needs, which right now is the legend of Luke Skywalker, they need something to believe in, they need that action figure of Luke Skywalker to grab on to, that inspiration to stare up at the stars and believe that you can be a hero."

[Jorge]

I really like that. What's your issue with it?

[Anders]

Everything. I think it goes completely against what Star Wars has always been about.

[Jorge]

"Everything" isn't really an answer. What's your issue specifically?

Also, I honestly couldn't care less about "what Star Wars has always been about"

[Anders]

"Everything" isn't really an answer. What's your issue specifically?

Also, I honestly couldn't care less about "what Star Wars has always been about"

This part specifically:

«that he sees this hero worship of him and of the Jedi that is detrimental to the galaxy. The universe has put its faith in its false god of the Jedi and they need to forget the religion so they can get back to god, that light can rise from a worthier source. And because he's the last Jedi and a symbol of that, it then becomes this self-sacrifice he has to do to take himself out of it when he knows his friends are dying, when he knows the thing he'd like to do is get back in the fight. He's taken the weight of the world on his shoulders by taking himself out of the equation so that the Jedi can die out. The end of the movie is him embracing the part of the past that the present needs»

Just ridiculous. He has taken himself out of the equation when his friends are dying, so that the Jedi can end, and Luke become a legend that can grow into something bigger. Just ridiculous.

Well Star Wars has given us some of the greatest stories and best movies ever made. That means something. You might not care, but I do.

[dimejinky99]

Everything. I think it goes completely against what Star Wars has always been about.

?? I can’t soeak to that but to me it’s added a whole new world of depth and complexity to both Star Wars and it’s main character that it never ever had before. That is uncomfortable and unacceptable for you and others maybe but it’s given a needed new second life to Star Wars. It’s new. If he had t done this wed just be watching a remake of the OT all over again. I think that’s what a lotta people wanted. I for one am glad it didn’t happen like that.

So in our new trilogy we’re one film thats a mix tape of the OT greatest hits, one film that’s completely too different to what we want Star Wars to be

So with any luck 9 will either combine both of those things or go even further by doing something totally different again.

[Jorge]

This part specifically:

«that he sees this hero worship of him and of the Jedi that is detrimental to the galaxy. The universe has put its faith in its false god of the Jedi and they need to forget the religion so they can get back to god, that light can rise from a worthier source. And because he's the last Jedi and a symbol of that, it then becomes this self-sacrifice he has to do to take himself out of it when he knows his friends are dying, when he knows the thing he'd like to do is get back in the fight. He's taken the weight of the world on his shoulders by taking himself out of the equation so that the Jedi can die out. The end of the movie is him embracing the part of the past that the present needs»

Just ridiculous. He has taken himself out of the equation when his friends are dying, so that the Jedi can end, and Luke become a legend that can grow into something bigger. Just ridiculous.

It kind of sounds like you're misunderstanding what he's saying. Early-movie Luke is the one who has taken himself out of the equation because, in the bitterness of his defeat, he believes the Jedi mythology is pointless vanity and actively harmful to the understanding of the Force. It is later-movie Luke, who effectively dies as a folk hero, who realizes the power of said myth to stoke the fires of revolution, which is further underlined by the film's final scene. It's an interesting approach, and completely consistent with the themes this movie explores.

[Anders]

I can’t speak to that but to me it’s added a whole new world of depth and complexity to both Star Wars and it’s main character that it never ever had before. That is uncomfortable and unacceptable for you and others maybe but it’s given a needed new second life to Star Wars. It’s new. If he hadn't done this we'd just be watching a remake of the OT all over again. I think that’s what a lotta people wanted. I for one am glad it didn’t happen like that.

Are we talking about Luke or Rey? Don't agree either way. Plenty of better ways of doing this.

So in our new trilogy we’re one film thats a mix tape of the OT greatest hits, one film that’s completely too different to what we want Star Wars to be. So with any luck 9 will either combine both of those things or go even further by doing something totally different again.

I like TFA. I think Rey's story is a bit weak (even compared to Jyn or Finn, and especially compared to Luke and Anakin), Han's comeback could have been handled a little better (the smuggler scene), and sadly Starkiller base was stupid. But overall I rated it high, recommended it to friends, saw it twice in the cinema, and already twice at home. Think I will see it again within a week or so. Being similar to ANH was never the problem.

I have hope that 9 will deliver. I like Rogue 1, TFA, Rebels, Clone Wars and Revenge, so chances are good.

[Anders]

This part specifically:

«that he sees this hero worship of him and of the Jedi that is detrimental to the galaxy. The universe has put its faith in its false god of the Jedi and they need to forget the religion so they can get back to god, that light can rise from a worthier source. And because he's the last Jedi and a symbol of that, it then becomes this self-sacrifice he has to do to take himself out of it when he knows his friends are dying, when he knows the thing he'd like to do is get back in the fight. He's taken the weight of the world on his shoulders by taking himself out of the equation so that the Jedi can die out. The end of the movie is him embracing the part of the past that the present needs»

Just ridiculous. He has taken himself out of the equation when his friends are dying, so that the Jedi can end, and Luke become a legend that can grow into something bigger. Just ridiculous.

It kind of sounds like you're misunderstanding what he's saying. Early-movie Luke is the one who has taken himself out of the equation because, in the bitterness of his defeat, he believes the Jedi mythology is pointless vanity and actively harmful to the understanding of the Force. It is later-movie Luke, who effectively dies as a folk hero, who realizes the power of said myth to stoke the fires of revolution, which is further underlined by the film's final scene. It's an interesting approach, and completely consistent with the themes this movie explores.

I don't see how that changes anything I said. Both giving up on the Jedi, and thinking the Jedi teachings are harmful to the understanding of the force, which is completely against anything we have seen of Luke before, and then going the folk hero way to stoke the fires of revolution, are both ridiculous.

[Jorge]

which is completely against anything we have seen of Luke before,

This is a worthless argument. We have also only seen young Jedi upstart Luke, not crushed-by-grief-and-bitterness 30-years-later Luke. Where he starts in this movie is clearly a very different place than where he was the last time we saw him. WHICH IS A GOOD THING

[Monkey_Driven]

which is completely against anything we have seen of Luke before,

This is a worthless argument. We have also only seen young Jedi upstart Luke, not crushed-by-grief-and-bitterness 30-years-later Luke. Where he starts in this movie is clearly a very different place than where he was the last time we saw him. WHICH IS A GOOD THING

So much this.

[LoathedVermin72]

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to be bothered by a movie jumping 30 years and completely changing a character. Just chalking it up to “we haven’t seen THIS Luke” without any connective tissue is a bullshit argument. That has to be earned.

[LoathedVermin72]

And yeah yeah, Luke is reacting to events established by TFA, which is really the root of the issue: the events of TFA are dumb and never should have happened.

[Strat]

The connective tissue is there. The story is told and it all makes complete sense.

Some people just dont like it and that's fine. But its there and its a fantastic story to tell.

[LoathedVermin72]

The connective tissue is there. The story is told and it all makes complete sense.

Some people just dont like it and that's fine. But its there and its a fantastic story to tell.

cool thanks strat have a good day

[Monkey_Driven]

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to be bothered by a movie jumping 30 years and completely changing a character. Just chalking it up to “we haven’t seen THIS Luke” without any connective tissue is a bullshit argument. That has to be earned.

The connective tissue is foreshadowed in TFA and is discussed/shown throughout TLJ.

[Anders]

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to be bothered by a movie jumping 30 years and completely changing a character. Just chalking it up to “we haven’t seen THIS Luke” without any connective tissue is a bullshit argument. That has to be earned.

True. We learned a lot about him from the OT, and now he has given up on everything he ever was or believed in.

[Strat]

The connective tissue is there. The story is told and it all makes complete sense.

Some people just dont like it and that's fine. But its there and its a fantastic story to tell.

cool thanks strat have a good day

" the events of TFA are dumb and never should have happened."

Thanks for proving my point loveyoubye

[Anders]

And yeah yeah, Luke is reacting to events established by TFA, which is really the root of the issue: the events of TFA are dumb and never should have happened.

I see where you are coming from with this, and certainly TFA has some of the blame. But there are a million ways they could have changed that in a positive direction in TLJ.

[LoathedVermin72]

For what it’s worth, I feel no allegiance to Luke as a character, and I don’t care where they take him. I just think what TLJ did is crappy character development.