BOB vitriol / scape goat thread

[McParadigm]

Why do you think he played a stupid keyboard part on FD?

Because it's a stupid song.

[Farmer John]

You guys have been in my 'Other Bands' thread about the new Brendan O'Brien and Brandon Boyd collab, right? That's the kind of producer O'Brien is. He wants some of the limelight. Why do you think he played a stupid keyboard part on FD?

Maybe they asked him to.

[McParadigm]

You guys have been in my 'Other Bands' thread about the new Brendan O'Brien and Brandon Boyd collab, right? That's the kind of producer O'Brien is. He wants some of the limelight. Why do you think he played a stupid keyboard part on FD?

Maybe they asked him to.

That sounds pretty polite, really.

[harmless]

Why do you think he played a stupid keyboard part on FD?

Because it's a stupid song.

I think the song's OK by itself. My point is, I can imagine the conversation and it makes me want to punch O'Brien's lights out. "Oh wow, that's really pretty Ed, but you know, I have this keyboard part that might work with it. See what you think." Make me famous, the Pearl Jams! Give me street cred!

[harmless]

You guys have been in my 'Other Bands' thread about the new Brendan O'Brien and Brandon Boyd collab, right? That's the kind of producer O'Brien is. He wants some of the limelight. Why do you think he played a stupid keyboard part on FD?

Maybe they asked him to.

Maybe. Maybe they just said he could. Who knows?

[VinylGuy]

The reaction towards BOB in these recent years from the pj fan base is exaggerated and dramatic.
When they did Binaural and RA most of this fan base was begging BOB to return...now, it seems like he is the worst producer ever, just because some of you don´t like BS or how it sounds.

[Farmer John]

Who knows?

Yeah, exactly!

[EJ]

The reaction towards BOB in these recent years from the pj fan base is exaggerated and dramatic.
When they did Binaural and RA most of this fan base was begging BOB to return...now, it seems like he is the worst producer ever, just because some of you don´t like BS or how it sounds.

[MemoFromTurner]

My favorite Pearl Jam album and one of my personal favorite albums of all time: No Code.

Producer: Brendan O'Brien

The best Pearl Jam album: Vitalogy

Producer: Brendan O'Brien

The Pearl Jam fanboi favorite album: Yield

Producer: Brendan O'Brien

So how can BOB be the problem when he is clearly also the solution? For whatever reason ST/Avocado/Blue and Backspacer were the albums these guys wanted to make. They succeeded on their terms and failed according to the fanbois because these albums don't have the supposed gravitas of the earlier work. I think these guys are in a genuinely good place in their lives. They like each other and they are excited to make music. Unlike U2 I don't think they are artistically bankrupt and cashing in chips. PJ is making happier, catchier music. Are we interested? Maybe not. Personally, I was intrigued by Backspacer because for the first time in their career both my wife and daughter would listen to Pearl Jam. The band was attempting to make their music accessible without sucking. Yes, that's an entirely new and lame demographic but fucking everyone liked the Beatles so possibly PJ is trying to hone in on a more universal appeal that doesn't suck. I'm giving them a chance. You either quit (Zeppelin) and your sound is locked for all time or you change (Dylan who pissed off his fan base too many times to count) and keep searching musically. Pearl Jam very capable of going into a time machine and remaking No Code / Vitalogy albeit with worse lyrics. I think the lyrics are gone forever sadly as family life has sapped Ed of the semi-illiterate-savant-tortured soul abilities of youth.

Go Lightning Bolt! Go!

Producers always get a lot of blame for albums people don't like, but rarely get the credit when things turn out well.

My personal philosophy on this is that the buck stops with the artist. BOB pushing too much of a poppy sound? Well, if that's not what the artist wants then they can say no, push back, even fire the producer. A lot of what the producer is doing is probably in response to ideas and desires the artist has expressed anyway.

The DMB fan community went through this with a run of albums, hating on Glen Ballard and Mark Batson. But the band hired those guys and made the choice to make albums that way. An established act isn't getting pushed around by their producer (or, if they are, that's an even worse sign).

I don't think they're being pushed around. I just don't think they have high demands. They want people to like and buy their music, that's it. They have no deep artist ambition anymore and Brendan O'Brien these days is the kind of indulgent 'yes man' who will hear what they're vaguely after and do that for them, suggest loads of ideas to make a saleable album and just post the result afterwards. I think they care about the product but that's what it is, a product. And it's not one they're slavishly making; O'Brien is probably just as involved in the creative process, if not more. PJ says what they want and he gets it done, which means that new PJ albums are effectively also Brendan O'Brien albums. PJ are perfectly happy with this arrangement because it means they don't have to do a great deal or have any conflict.

Beatles albums were George Martin albums and nobody complained. John Lennon would request all kinds of absurd vocal setups ("I want to sound like I'm on top of a mountain singing into a swarm of birds" or some such) and Martin would make it happen. He provided the full magic to the half magic musical genius of someone like Lennon and he steered McCartney away from his bad tendencies. George Martin was the gatekeeper.

And BOB could be too if he were at the top of his game. BOB created the atmosphere of No Code and Vitalogy. I think the bad impression we have of ST and Backspacer is that the band were scrambling to stay viable and viable meant a commercial sound and a commercial sound meant ST and Backspacer production and the band led the movement away from the warm and textured sound we want. The problem is that BOB is NOT the gatekeeper. But he has the talent if not the mindset.

We are being promised atmosphere. PJ might deliver or heads are going to explode.

[harmless]

I think Brendan O'Brien is treating his recent projects as vehicles for his self-indulgence.

[harmless]

My favorite Pearl Jam album and one of my personal favorite albums of all time: No Code.

Producer: Brendan O'Brien

The best Pearl Jam album: Vitalogy

Producer: Brendan O'Brien

The Pearl Jam fanboi favorite album: Yield

Producer: Brendan O'Brien

So how can BOB be the problem when he is clearly also the solution? For whatever reason ST/Avocado/Blue and Backspacer were the albums these guys wanted to make. They succeeded on their terms and failed according to the fanbois because these albums don't have the supposed gravitas of the earlier work. I think these guys are in a genuinely good place in their lives. They like each other and they are excited to make music. Unlike U2 I don't think they are artistically bankrupt and cashing in chips. PJ is making happier, catchier music. Are we interested? Maybe not. Personally, I was intrigued by Backspacer because for the first time in their career both my wife and daughter would listen to Pearl Jam. The band was attempting to make their music accessible without sucking. Yes, that's an entirely new and lame demographic but fucking everyone liked the Beatles so possibly PJ is trying to hone in on a more universal appeal that doesn't suck. I'm giving them a chance. You either quit (Zeppelin) and your sound is locked for all time or you change (Dylan who pissed off his fan base too many times to count) and keep searching musically. Pearl Jam very capable of going into a time machine and remaking No Code / Vitalogy albeit with worse lyrics. I think the lyrics are gone forever sadly as family life has sapped Ed of the semi-illiterate-savant-tortured soul abilities of youth.

Go Lightning Bolt! Go!

Producers always get a lot of blame for albums people don't like, but rarely get the credit when things turn out well.

My personal philosophy on this is that the buck stops with the artist. BOB pushing too much of a poppy sound? Well, if that's not what the artist wants then they can say no, push back, even fire the producer. A lot of what the producer is doing is probably in response to ideas and desires the artist has expressed anyway.

The DMB fan community went through this with a run of albums, hating on Glen Ballard and Mark Batson. But the band hired those guys and made the choice to make albums that way. An established act isn't getting pushed around by their producer (or, if they are, that's an even worse sign).

I don't think they're being pushed around. I just don't think they have high demands. They want people to like and buy their music, that's it. They have no deep artist ambition anymore and Brendan O'Brien these days is the kind of indulgent 'yes man' who will hear what they're vaguely after and do that for them, suggest loads of ideas to make a saleable album and just post the result afterwards. I think they care about the product but that's what it is, a product. And it's not one they're slavishly making; O'Brien is probably just as involved in the creative process, if not more. PJ says what they want and he gets it done, which means that new PJ albums are effectively also Brendan O'Brien albums. PJ are perfectly happy with this arrangement because it means they don't have to do a great deal or have any conflict.

Beatles albums were George Martin albums and nobody complained. John Lennon would request all kinds of absurd vocal setups ("I want to sound like I'm on top of a mountain singing into a swarm of birds" or some such) and Martin would make it happen. He provided the full magic to the half magic musical genius of someone like Lennon and he steered McCartney away from his bad tendencies. George Martin was the gatekeeper.

And BOB could be too if he were at the top of his game. BOB created the atmosphere of No Code and Vitalogy. I think the bad impression we have of ST and Backspacer is that the band were scrambling to stay viable and viable meant a commercial sound and a commercial sound meant ST and Backspacer production and the band led the movement away from the warm and textured sound we want. The problem is that BOB is NOT the gatekeeper. But he has the talent if not the mindset.

We are being promised atmosphere. PJ might deliver or heads are going to explode.

Atmosphere and experimentation. Hey, I don't mind if we don't get Binaural again but the least I'm hoping for is a more expansive and thorough Backspacer.

[stupidmop]

I don't think they're being pushed around, and I don't really think he's on some egotrip and wants to be part of the band. If there is a problem I think its the fact that they're more willing to listen to him all the way now. Whereas ed fought to keep betterman less poppy as he could I think I'd he wrote it today he'd be more willing to go to town with bobs ideas. I'm just gonna call him bob from now on btw. I think the reason those previous albums sounded good was that it was a perfect mix between pjs ideas on how it should sound and bobs, maybe skewing more towards pjs ideas I don't know.

[McParadigm]

I think Brendan O'Brien is treating his recent projects as vehicles for his self-indulgence.

Producers change over time, just like artists do. And, like anybody in a creative field, their work tomorrow is influenced by the work they do today...and by where they are in their life.

Right now, we're talking about a guy who is constantly being lifted up among recording engineers and professionals as a former master who is now embarrassing himself. His work the last few years with other artists, beyond Pearl Jam, has been the subject of frequent criticism for lazy or poor production. Basically, the only projects he's connected with that don't end up getting pointed out are the ones where he's working with a really great sound engineer who has a history with the band (AC/DC's Black Ice) or where the band's artistic drive and direction is so intense that his input is appropriately reduced (Mastodon).

I'm not saying he's the reason Pearl Jam is mediocre now...but he is a cog in the disappointment machine, and it takes every cog running full steam to keep that thing running this efficiently.

[Farmer John]

You guys have been in my 'Other Bands' thread about the new Brendan O'Brien and Brandon Boyd collab, right? That's the kind of producer O'Brien is. He wants some of the limelight. Why do you think he played a stupid keyboard part on FD?

Maybe they asked him to.

That sounds pretty polite, really.

Maybe Eddie hit him and demanded he play it.

[McParadigm]

Why do you think he played a stupid keyboard part on FD?

Because it's a stupid song.

I think the song's OK by itself. My point is, I can imagine the conversation and it makes me want to punch O'Brien's lights out. "Oh wow, that's really pretty Ed, but you know, I have this keyboard part that might work with it. See what you think." Make me famous, the Pearl Jams! Give me street cred!

I was being flippant. But Brendan has always been inclined to put himself into the albums he's working on. Hell, he cowrote a bunch of songs for that Train album with Calling All Angels on it, played a bunch of stuff on Devils and Dust, even played some keys on No Code.

[McParadigm]

Maybe Eddie hit him and demanded he play it.

A return to form!

[harmless]

Why do you think he played a stupid keyboard part on FD?

Because it's a stupid song.

I think the song's OK by itself. My point is, I can imagine the conversation and it makes me want to punch O'Brien's lights out. "Oh wow, that's really pretty Ed, but you know, I have this keyboard part that might work with it. See what you think." Make me famous, the Pearl Jams! Give me street cred!

I was being flippant. But Brendan has always been inclined to put himself into the albums he's working on. Hell, he cowrote a bunch of songs for that Train album with Calling All Angels on it, played a bunch of stuff on Devils and Dust, even played some keys on No Code.

Really? Didn't know that. So basically he's the Quentin Tarantino of music producers, is that what we're saying here?

[Norah]

Why do you think he played a stupid keyboard part on FD?

Because it's a stupid song.

I think the song's OK by itself. My point is, I can imagine the conversation and it makes me want to punch O'Brien's lights out. "Oh wow, that's really pretty Ed, but you know, I have this keyboard part that might work with it. See what you think." Make me famous, the Pearl Jams! Give me street cred!

I was being flippant. But Brendan has always been inclined to put himself into the albums he's working on. Hell, he cowrote a bunch of songs for that Train album with Calling All Angels on it, played a bunch of stuff on Devils and Dust, even played some keys on No Code.

Really? Didn't know that. So basically he's the Quentin Tarantino of music producers, is that what we're saying here?

Except he sucks.

[McParadigm]

Why do you think he played a stupid keyboard part on FD?

Because it's a stupid song.

I think the song's OK by itself. My point is, I can imagine the conversation and it makes me want to punch O'Brien's lights out. "Oh wow, that's really pretty Ed, but you know, I have this keyboard part that might work with it. See what you think." Make me famous, the Pearl Jams! Give me street cred!

I was being flippant. But Brendan has always been inclined to put himself into the albums he's working on. Hell, he cowrote a bunch of songs for that Train album with Calling All Angels on it, played a bunch of stuff on Devils and Dust, even played some keys on No Code.

Really? Didn't know that. So basically he's the Quentin Tarantino of music producers, is that what we're saying here?

Except he sucks.

So the modern day Quentin Tarantino of music producers.

[Farmer John]

Why do you think he played a stupid keyboard part on FD?

Because it's a stupid song.

I think the song's OK by itself. My point is, I can imagine the conversation and it makes me want to punch O'Brien's lights out. "Oh wow, that's really pretty Ed, but you know, I have this keyboard part that might work with it. See what you think." Make me famous, the Pearl Jams! Give me street cred!

I was being flippant. But Brendan has always been inclined to put himself into the albums he's working on. Hell, he cowrote a bunch of songs for that Train album with Calling All Angels on it, played a bunch of stuff on Devils and Dust, even played some keys on No Code.

Really? Didn't know that. So basically he's the Quentin Tarantino of music producers, is that what we're saying here?

Except he sucks.

So the modern day Quentin Tarantino of music producers.

Except he's not fat.