BOB vitriol / scape goat thread

[nomorecrackpipes]

I simply think many confuse production and loudness, that's all. I could get more involved, but I'm at work and this audit isn't auditing itself.

[Juvenal]

I simply think many confuse production and loudness, that's all. I could get more involved, but I'm at work and this audit isn't auditing itself.

What's more important - RM or your work?

[Mine]

As per point 1, I'm not positive how much blame goes on O'Brien because a lot of the extreme loudness (aural fatigue) comes from mastering, whereas Gateway Mastering I think has done most of the PJ albums (including Avocado). Gateway also did the Vs/Vitalogy reissues that are also hard to listen to. The unmastered Avocado songs give us a glimpse that the last two albums could have sounded far better.

Producers are in charge of that too but it's the bands fault in my opinion.

[Birds in Hell]

As per point 1, I'm not positive how much blame goes on O'Brien because a lot of the extreme loudness (aural fatigue) comes from mastering, whereas Gateway Mastering I think has done most of the PJ albums (including Avocado). Gateway also did the Vs/Vitalogy reissues that are also hard to listen to. The unmastered Avocado songs give us a glimpse that the last two albums could have sounded far better.

Producers are in charge of that too but it's the bands fault in my opinion.

I agree that, ultimately, the buck stops with Messrs Vedder, Gossard, Ament, McCready and Cameron.

It's their work, they could take a more active role in how it turns out but it appears they're either wilfully ignorant of the technical aspects of music production or they actively wanted S/T and Backspacer to sound the way that they did. Neither is very complimentary, really.

[MemoFromTurner]

What with BOB cowriting a lot of songs for the Train album and Ed hobsnobbing with One Direction I don't know what to believe in any more. My moral compass is spinning wildly as I look to these middle aged white dudes to guide me.

[EJ]

Has a loudness war question ever been brought up in those pj radio roundtable discussions?

[harmless]

What with BOB cowriting a lot of songs for the Train album and Ed hobsnobbing with One Direction I don't know what to believe in any more. My moral compass is spinning wildly as I look to these middle aged white dudes to guide me.

[nomorecrackpipes]

Has a loudness war question ever been brought up in those pj radio roundtable discussions?

At a Q&A somewhere (the roundtable maybe? I can't find a link, but it was at some point within the last two years) he was asked this question and he said "I don't care." That made me sad.

[Mine]

As per point 1, I'm not positive how much blame goes on O'Brien because a lot of the extreme loudness (aural fatigue) comes from mastering, whereas Gateway Mastering I think has done most of the PJ albums (including Avocado). Gateway also did the Vs/Vitalogy reissues that are also hard to listen to. The unmastered Avocado songs give us a glimpse that the last two albums could have sounded far better.

Producers are in charge of that too but it's the bands fault in my opinion.

I agree that, ultimately, the buck stops with Messrs Vedder, Gossard, Ament, McCready and Cameron.

It's their work, they could take a more active role in how it turns out but it appears they're either wilfully ignorant of the technical aspects of music production or they actively wanted S/T and Backspacer to sound the way that they did. Neither is very complimentary, really.

They appear to be plenty ignorant when it comes to sound quality judging by the fact they seem to think vinyl will miraculously make those compressed masters sound worthy. That or they're 1/2 deaf from touring. Seriously this i find is the irony this arguments ends in. They've always been so serious about vinyl yet a medium quality mp3 is overkill for some of their work.

[Birds in Hell]

Has a loudness war question ever been brought up in those pj radio roundtable discussions?

At a Q&A somewhere (the roundtable maybe? I can't find a link, but it was at some point within the last two years) he was asked this question and he said "I don't care." That made me sad.

I remember someone asking Vedder at some point about the increased use of heavy compression in modern music production and he admitted he had no idea what that meant.

[Norah]

Has a loudness war question ever been brought up in those pj radio roundtable discussions?

At a Q&A somewhere (the roundtable maybe? I can't find a link, but it was at some point within the last two years) he was asked this question and he said "I don't care." That made me sad.

I remember someone asking Vedder at some point about the increased use of heavy compression in modern music production and he admitted he had no idea what that meant.

I remember that. I died a little that day.

[harmless]

Has a loudness war question ever been brought up in those pj radio roundtable discussions?

At a Q&A somewhere (the roundtable maybe? I can't find a link, but it was at some point within the last two years) he was asked this question and he said "I don't care." That made me sad.

I remember someone asking Vedder at some point about the increased use of heavy compression in modern music production and he admitted he had no idea what that meant.

I remember that. I died a little that day.

So, about Backspacer, he's probably like "What? It sounds just like V.s."

[bodysnatcher]

Has a loudness war question ever been brought up in those pj radio roundtable discussions?

At a Q&A somewhere (the roundtable maybe? I can't find a link, but it was at some point within the last two years) he was asked this question and he said "I don't care." That made me sad.

I remember someone asking Vedder at some point about the increased use of heavy compression in modern music production and he admitted he had no idea what that meant.

I remember that. I died a little that day.

Ed doesn't like doing homework, and I would consider learning about loudness is part of that. Instead, he's probably just reading the Ramones biography for the 1000th time

[Birds in Hell]

Has a loudness war question ever been brought up in those pj radio roundtable discussions?

At a Q&A somewhere (the roundtable maybe? I can't find a link, but it was at some point within the last two years) he was asked this question and he said "I don't care." That made me sad.

I remember someone asking Vedder at some point about the increased use of heavy compression in modern music production and he admitted he had no idea what that meant.

I remember that. I died a little that day.

Ed doesn't like doing homework, and I would consider learning about loudness is part of that

That might, like, destroy the...uh, magic, you know?

[stip]

is the compression simply for the radio, or do the shitty earbud speakers most people probably listen to music through also benefit from the compression?

[Jorge]

THERE IS NOTHING PEARL JAM CAN DO, NO CRIME SO HORRIFIC AND EGREGIOUS, THAT STIP WON'T (at least passively) ATTEMPT TO DEFEND

[Thejambi]

is the compression simply for the radio, or do the shitty earbud speakers most people probably listen to music through also benefit from the compression?

In my experience compression helps with lower end systems that lack good range to begin with.

[bodysnatcher]

B.O.B. comes across as a guy who always wanted to be in a band, but no one ever liked him enough to have him officially join. So now he produces albums so he can bullcharge his way in.

[stip]

THERE IS NOTHING PEARL JAM CAN DO, NO CRIME SO HORRIFIC AND EGREGIOUS, THAT STIP WON'T (at least passively) ATTEMPT TO DEFEND

not remastering their stuff for the vinyl that audiophiles want is pretty weak, and I'm in general not a fan of the compression. I'm more interested in finding out why this seems to be the direction the entire industry is moving in, and radio seems pretty flimsy on its own given how people consume music. if thejambi is right then it makes more sense

[Norah]

THERE IS NOTHING PEARL JAM CAN DO, NO CRIME SO HORRIFIC AND EGREGIOUS, THAT STIP WON'T (at least passively) ATTEMPT TO DEFEND

not remastering their stuff for the vinyl that audiophiles want is pretty weak, and I'm in general not a fan of the compression. I'm more interested in finding out why this seems to be the direction the entire industry is moving in, and radio seems pretty flimsy on its own given how people consume music. if thejambi is right then it makes more sense

For the most part, the loudness wars did start with radio. Most casual listeners, and even more discerning listeners upon hearing a song in a less engaged manner, will either equate loudness with good sound, or at least be more immediately grabbed by a song if it's perceived as louder. So sometime in the late 90s or so, record companies wanted their music to sound as loud as possible when it's played on the radio (which was traditionally where people would hear a song for the first time). This led to an absurd amount of one upness among mastering, which in turn gave us some hideous sounding releases such as RHCP's Californication (which is often cited as the classic example of the loudness wars pushed to their limits)