The West Wing

[Norah]

Well season one ended with a bang.

[Monkey_Driven]

Well season one ended with a bang.

I see what you did there.

[dimejinky99]

An arboreal encounter?

[Norah]

On season 4 now.

Every so often a character does something that just completely baffles me. Like in season 3 when Toby just out of nowhere starts psycho analyzing the President about his daddy issues. It made no fucking sense. Why would he do that?

[spike]

On season 4 now.

Every so often a character does something that just completely baffles me. Like in season 3 when Toby just out of nowhere starts psycho analyzing the President about his daddy issues. It made no fucking sense. Why would he do that?

the president probably knocked on the glass

[The Argonaut]

I just re-read this thread, and now I really want to re-watch the show, or at least the first four seasons. It's been five years since I watched it!

[Norah]

Season 7 is actually really good.

[BootsToAsses]

On season 4 now.

Every so often a character does something that just completely baffles me. Like in season 3 when Toby just out of nowhere starts psycho analyzing the President about his daddy issues. It made no fucking sense. Why would he do that?

As he says at the start of the conversation, Toby knows there are two sides to the President's character...

TOBY
Well, there’s always been a concern... about the two Bartlets. [beat] The absent-minded
professor with the “Aw, Dad” sense of humor. Disarming and unthreatening. Good for all
time zones. And the Nobel Laureate. Still searching for salvation. Lonely, frustrated.
Lethal.

BARTLET
You’re gonna sing a country western song?

TOBY
The one whose father never liked him because he was too smart.

Toby is worried that Bartlet is going to lower himself to Governor Richie's level and not be himself, because he's scared that people won't like him if he shows who is really is. He wants to be 'good for all time zones', as Toby says. Richie is good for all time zones, whereas Bartlet is academic elite and some people don't like the smartest kid in the class.

It goes back to Bartlet's relationship with his father. His father hated him because he wasn't as smart as his son. Bartlet has gone on to greatness partly because part of his psyche still seeks approval from his father. Win a Nobel Prize, become president etc. Toby is acutely aware of Bartlet's quiet frustrations, so in this scene he's essentially stoking the fire because hr wants the President to tap into who he really is. He wants the election to be about being the smartest, most capable and he knows Bartlet is that man. He just doesn't want Bartlet to present himself as less than he is because of how his father made him feel about his gifts.

The next episode, "Five Nights", is a wonderful follow-up because the psychiatrist Stanley also calls him on it in a much clearer way.

It's beautiful stuff, and makes a ton of sense that it was Toby who called the President on this because they've always clashed. Toby expects a lot from his President, and whenever they clash during the show's run it's usually because Bartlet isn't living up to Toby's moral expectations. Hell, go all the way to what happens to season 7 and the final conversation they have. Bartlet is also keenly aware that Toby always felt morally superior to him.

[BootsToAsses]

Season 7 is actually really good.

Hell yeah it is!

Season 3
Season 2
Season 7
Season 1
Season 4
Season 6
Season 5

The back half of season 6 and then all of season 7 are stunning, after a miserable season 5 that tried too hard to match Sorkin's writing.

[Norah]

On season 4 now.

Every so often a character does something that just completely baffles me. Like in season 3 when Toby just out of nowhere starts psycho analyzing the President about his daddy issues. It made no fucking sense. Why would he do that?

As he says at the start of the conversation, Toby knows there are two sides to the President's character...

TOBY
Well, there’s always been a concern... about the two Bartlets. [beat] The absent-minded
professor with the “Aw, Dad” sense of humor. Disarming and unthreatening. Good for all
time zones. And the Nobel Laureate. Still searching for salvation. Lonely, frustrated.
Lethal.

BARTLET
You’re gonna sing a country western song?

TOBY
The one whose father never liked him because he was too smart.

Toby is worried that Bartlet is going to lower himself to Governor Richie's level and not be himself, because he's scared that people won't like him if he shows who is really is. He wants to be 'good for all time zones', as Toby says. Richie is good for all time zones, whereas Bartlet is academic elite and some people don't like the smartest kid in the class.

It goes back to Bartlet's relationship with his father. His father hated him because he wasn't as smart as his son. Bartlet has gone on to greatness partly because part of his psyche still seeks approval from his father. Win a Nobel Prize, become president etc. Toby is acutely aware of Bartlet's quiet frustrations, so in this scene he's essentially stoking the fire because hr wants the President to tap into who he really is. He wants the election to be about being the smartest, most capable and he knows Bartlet is that man. He just doesn't want Bartlet to present himself as less than he is because of how his father made him feel about his gifts.

The next episode, "Five Nights", is a wonderful follow-up because the psychiatrist Stanley also calls him on it in a much clearer way.

It's beautiful stuff, and makes a ton of sense that it was Toby who called the President on this because they've always clashed. Toby expects a lot from his President, and whenever they clash during the show's run it's usually because Bartlet isn't living up to Toby's moral expectations. Hell, go all the way to what happens to season 7 and the final conversation they have. Bartlet is also keenly aware that Toby always felt morally superior to him.

Yeah, but like Bartlett said, he was way fucking out of line going all Good Will Hunting "it's not your fault" with the sitting POTUS.

[BootsToAsses]

On season 4 now.

Every so often a character does something that just completely baffles me. Like in season 3 when Toby just out of nowhere starts psycho analyzing the President about his daddy issues. It made no fucking sense. Why would he do that?

As he says at the start of the conversation, Toby knows there are two sides to the President's character...

TOBY
Well, there’s always been a concern... about the two Bartlets. [beat] The absent-minded
professor with the “Aw, Dad” sense of humor. Disarming and unthreatening. Good for all
time zones. And the Nobel Laureate. Still searching for salvation. Lonely, frustrated.
Lethal.

BARTLET
You’re gonna sing a country western song?

TOBY
The one whose father never liked him because he was too smart.

Toby is worried that Bartlet is going to lower himself to Governor Richie's level and not be himself, because he's scared that people won't like him if he shows who is really is. He wants to be 'good for all time zones', as Toby says. Richie is good for all time zones, whereas Bartlet is academic elite and some people don't like the smartest kid in the class.

It goes back to Bartlet's relationship with his father. His father hated him because he wasn't as smart as his son. Bartlet has gone on to greatness partly because part of his psyche still seeks approval from his father. Win a Nobel Prize, become president etc. Toby is acutely aware of Bartlet's quiet frustrations, so in this scene he's essentially stoking the fire because hr wants the President to tap into who he really is. He wants the election to be about being the smartest, most capable and he knows Bartlet is that man. He just doesn't want Bartlet to present himself as less than he is because of how his father made him feel about his gifts.

The next episode, "Five Nights", is a wonderful follow-up because the psychiatrist Stanley also calls him on it in a much clearer way.

It's beautiful stuff, and makes a ton of sense that it was Toby who called the President on this because they've always clashed. Toby expects a lot from his President, and whenever they clash during the show's run it's usually because Bartlet isn't living up to Toby's moral expectations. Hell, go all the way to what happens to season 7 and the final conversation they have. Bartlet is also keenly aware that Toby always felt morally superior to him.

Yeah, but like Bartlett said, he was way fucking out of line going all Good Will Hunting "it's not your fault" with the sitting POTUS.

Oh, absolutely. Toby was way out of line, but whatever gets the job done eh. He's risking his job by calling out the sitting POTUS but in the long run he sees it as a worthy exercise. A bit unrealistic, perhaps, but still wonderful stuff.

[Norah]

On season 4 now.

Every so often a character does something that just completely baffles me. Like in season 3 when Toby just out of nowhere starts psycho analyzing the President about his daddy issues. It made no fucking sense. Why would he do that?

As he says at the start of the conversation, Toby knows there are two sides to the President's character...

TOBY
Well, there’s always been a concern... about the two Bartlets. [beat] The absent-minded
professor with the “Aw, Dad” sense of humor. Disarming and unthreatening. Good for all
time zones. And the Nobel Laureate. Still searching for salvation. Lonely, frustrated.
Lethal.

BARTLET
You’re gonna sing a country western song?

TOBY
The one whose father never liked him because he was too smart.

Toby is worried that Bartlet is going to lower himself to Governor Richie's level and not be himself, because he's scared that people won't like him if he shows who is really is. He wants to be 'good for all time zones', as Toby says. Richie is good for all time zones, whereas Bartlet is academic elite and some people don't like the smartest kid in the class.

It goes back to Bartlet's relationship with his father. His father hated him because he wasn't as smart as his son. Bartlet has gone on to greatness partly because part of his psyche still seeks approval from his father. Win a Nobel Prize, become president etc. Toby is acutely aware of Bartlet's quiet frustrations, so in this scene he's essentially stoking the fire because hr wants the President to tap into who he really is. He wants the election to be about being the smartest, most capable and he knows Bartlet is that man. He just doesn't want Bartlet to present himself as less than he is because of how his father made him feel about his gifts.

The next episode, "Five Nights", is a wonderful follow-up because the psychiatrist Stanley also calls him on it in a much clearer way.

It's beautiful stuff, and makes a ton of sense that it was Toby who called the President on this because they've always clashed. Toby expects a lot from his President, and whenever they clash during the show's run it's usually because Bartlet isn't living up to Toby's moral expectations. Hell, go all the way to what happens to season 7 and the final conversation they have. Bartlet is also keenly aware that Toby always felt morally superior to him.

Yeah, but like Bartlett said, he was way fucking out of line going all Good Will Hunting "it's not your fault" with the sitting POTUS.

Oh, absolutely. Toby was way out of line, but whatever gets the job done eh. He's risking his job by calling out the sitting POTUS but in the long run he sees it as a worthy exercise. A bit unrealistic, perhaps, but still wonderful stuff.

I hated it. Took me right out of it. Seemed very out of character/unrealistic.

[dimejinky99]

I got the entire series on dvd for €15 in a cool box with another dvd included of 5 hours of bonus material like bloopers story meetings interviews and outtakes etc

Gonna dive back in soon

[BootsToAsses]

On season 4 now.

Every so often a character does something that just completely baffles me. Like in season 3 when Toby just out of nowhere starts psycho analyzing the President about his daddy issues. It made no fucking sense. Why would he do that?

As he says at the start of the conversation, Toby knows there are two sides to the President's character...

TOBY
Well, there’s always been a concern... about the two Bartlets. [beat] The absent-minded
professor with the “Aw, Dad” sense of humor. Disarming and unthreatening. Good for all
time zones. And the Nobel Laureate. Still searching for salvation. Lonely, frustrated.
Lethal.

BARTLET
You’re gonna sing a country western song?

TOBY
The one whose father never liked him because he was too smart.

Toby is worried that Bartlet is going to lower himself to Governor Richie's level and not be himself, because he's scared that people won't like him if he shows who is really is. He wants to be 'good for all time zones', as Toby says. Richie is good for all time zones, whereas Bartlet is academic elite and some people don't like the smartest kid in the class.

It goes back to Bartlet's relationship with his father. His father hated him because he wasn't as smart as his son. Bartlet has gone on to greatness partly because part of his psyche still seeks approval from his father. Win a Nobel Prize, become president etc. Toby is acutely aware of Bartlet's quiet frustrations, so in this scene he's essentially stoking the fire because hr wants the President to tap into who he really is. He wants the election to be about being the smartest, most capable and he knows Bartlet is that man. He just doesn't want Bartlet to present himself as less than he is because of how his father made him feel about his gifts.

The next episode, "Five Nights", is a wonderful follow-up because the psychiatrist Stanley also calls him on it in a much clearer way.

It's beautiful stuff, and makes a ton of sense that it was Toby who called the President on this because they've always clashed. Toby expects a lot from his President, and whenever they clash during the show's run it's usually because Bartlet isn't living up to Toby's moral expectations. Hell, go all the way to what happens to season 7 and the final conversation they have. Bartlet is also keenly aware that Toby always felt morally superior to him.

Yeah, but like Bartlett said, he was way fucking out of line going all Good Will Hunting "it's not your fault" with the sitting POTUS.

Oh, absolutely. Toby was way out of line, but whatever gets the job done eh. He's risking his job by calling out the sitting POTUS but in the long run he sees it as a worthy exercise. A bit unrealistic, perhaps, but still wonderful stuff.

I hated it. Took me right out of it. Seemed very out of character/unrealistic.

Sorry to hear that. We'll have to agree to disagree because I thought it was absolutely typical of who Toby is.

[Norah]

On season 4 now.

Every so often a character does something that just completely baffles me. Like in season 3 when Toby just out of nowhere starts psycho analyzing the President about his daddy issues. It made no fucking sense. Why would he do that?

As he says at the start of the conversation, Toby knows there are two sides to the President's character...

TOBY
Well, there’s always been a concern... about the two Bartlets. [beat] The absent-minded
professor with the “Aw, Dad” sense of humor. Disarming and unthreatening. Good for all
time zones. And the Nobel Laureate. Still searching for salvation. Lonely, frustrated.
Lethal.

BARTLET
You’re gonna sing a country western song?

TOBY
The one whose father never liked him because he was too smart.

Toby is worried that Bartlet is going to lower himself to Governor Richie's level and not be himself, because he's scared that people won't like him if he shows who is really is. He wants to be 'good for all time zones', as Toby says. Richie is good for all time zones, whereas Bartlet is academic elite and some people don't like the smartest kid in the class.

It goes back to Bartlet's relationship with his father. His father hated him because he wasn't as smart as his son. Bartlet has gone on to greatness partly because part of his psyche still seeks approval from his father. Win a Nobel Prize, become president etc. Toby is acutely aware of Bartlet's quiet frustrations, so in this scene he's essentially stoking the fire because hr wants the President to tap into who he really is. He wants the election to be about being the smartest, most capable and he knows Bartlet is that man. He just doesn't want Bartlet to present himself as less than he is because of how his father made him feel about his gifts.

The next episode, "Five Nights", is a wonderful follow-up because the psychiatrist Stanley also calls him on it in a much clearer way.

It's beautiful stuff, and makes a ton of sense that it was Toby who called the President on this because they've always clashed. Toby expects a lot from his President, and whenever they clash during the show's run it's usually because Bartlet isn't living up to Toby's moral expectations. Hell, go all the way to what happens to season 7 and the final conversation they have. Bartlet is also keenly aware that Toby always felt morally superior to him.

Yeah, but like Bartlett said, he was way fucking out of line going all Good Will Hunting "it's not your fault" with the sitting POTUS.

Oh, absolutely. Toby was way out of line, but whatever gets the job done eh. He's risking his job by calling out the sitting POTUS but in the long run he sees it as a worthy exercise. A bit unrealistic, perhaps, but still wonderful stuff.

I hated it. Took me right out of it. Seemed very out of character/unrealistic.

Sorry to hear that. We'll have to agree to disagree because I thought it was absolutely typical of who Toby is.

I still think it's a great show.

[BootsToAsses]

On season 4 now.

Every so often a character does something that just completely baffles me. Like in season 3 when Toby just out of nowhere starts psycho analyzing the President about his daddy issues. It made no fucking sense. Why would he do that?

As he says at the start of the conversation, Toby knows there are two sides to the President's character...

TOBY
Well, there’s always been a concern... about the two Bartlets. [beat] The absent-minded
professor with the “Aw, Dad” sense of humor. Disarming and unthreatening. Good for all
time zones. And the Nobel Laureate. Still searching for salvation. Lonely, frustrated.
Lethal.

BARTLET
You’re gonna sing a country western song?

TOBY
The one whose father never liked him because he was too smart.

Toby is worried that Bartlet is going to lower himself to Governor Richie's level and not be himself, because he's scared that people won't like him if he shows who is really is. He wants to be 'good for all time zones', as Toby says. Richie is good for all time zones, whereas Bartlet is academic elite and some people don't like the smartest kid in the class.

It goes back to Bartlet's relationship with his father. His father hated him because he wasn't as smart as his son. Bartlet has gone on to greatness partly because part of his psyche still seeks approval from his father. Win a Nobel Prize, become president etc. Toby is acutely aware of Bartlet's quiet frustrations, so in this scene he's essentially stoking the fire because hr wants the President to tap into who he really is. He wants the election to be about being the smartest, most capable and he knows Bartlet is that man. He just doesn't want Bartlet to present himself as less than he is because of how his father made him feel about his gifts.

The next episode, "Five Nights", is a wonderful follow-up because the psychiatrist Stanley also calls him on it in a much clearer way.

It's beautiful stuff, and makes a ton of sense that it was Toby who called the President on this because they've always clashed. Toby expects a lot from his President, and whenever they clash during the show's run it's usually because Bartlet isn't living up to Toby's moral expectations. Hell, go all the way to what happens to season 7 and the final conversation they have. Bartlet is also keenly aware that Toby always felt morally superior to him.

Yeah, but like Bartlett said, he was way fucking out of line going all Good Will Hunting "it's not your fault" with the sitting POTUS.

Oh, absolutely. Toby was way out of line, but whatever gets the job done eh. He's risking his job by calling out the sitting POTUS but in the long run he sees it as a worthy exercise. A bit unrealistic, perhaps, but still wonderful stuff.

I hated it. Took me right out of it. Seemed very out of character/unrealistic.

Sorry to hear that. We'll have to agree to disagree because I thought it was absolutely typical of who Toby is.

I still think it's a great show.

Yeah, it really is
I finished another run through a couple of weeks ago. I've realised I can never watch one episode; once I start I have to finish.

[dimejinky99]

Back in. Episode 1. Feel better already

[Norah]

I've been watching season 6 thinking it was season 7. Season 6 was great.

[BootsToAsses]

I've been watching season 6 thinking it was season 7. Season 6 was great.

I struggle a little with the first half of season 6, but the back half is pretty wonderful and leads into an even better season 7.

[dimejinky99]

I Got as far as episode 6 season one last night and I’d never really picked up on how spiky toby and bartlets relationship is before. He really does think he’s morally superior and goes about it all the wrong way. Consistently. And it’s only season one.