The Running Thread

[run2death]

Verb, I've noticed your cadence is in the mid-160s. Most runners in the 7- to 8-minute mile range are in the high-170s to mid-180s.

Do you have super long legs? Or are you a long-strider?

[verb_to_trust]

I'm 6 foot 2ish and have pretty long legs I guess. I actually feel like my stride used to be longer and I shortened it a little because it helped avoid injuries. I'm not really too hip on what my cadence should or shouldn't be. Not because I'm too cool to care, but because I'm an idiot. The treadmill seems to wear me out faster and I've always felt like part of that is because my stride is forced to be way shorter on a treadmill.

[run2death]

That makes sense. It's really all about efficiency for middle- to long-distance runners. 90% of the time our natural stride is our most efficient.

That being said, some people (particularly women) seem to want to lengthen their stride to the point of ridiculousness.

I've seen so many people with these crazy loping strides that look completely unnatural.

[guestT]

Help me set a goal for my spring marathon, Strava team.

It's important because it'll determine the paces at which I run the various training plan workouts (easy pace runs, speed pace, tempo pace, recovery pace, etc.).

Here's the issue:

3:30 would be a pretty significant PR for me (7 mins; 15 mins on this same course). But if I follow that time down the pace chart, the chart's 5K time is more like my HM time. Like 20-30 secs slower than my actual ability.

If I start at the 5K time on the chart and move up, it projects my marathon time ~3:17. That seems a little beyond my abilities, but if I follow the plan to the letter, who knows?

So do I say goal A: 3:17, B: 3:25, C: 3:30, and base the training runs on my fastest times, or approach the plan more conservatively, based on past marathon experience?

(hangs up and listens)

[run2death]

I think 3:17 is a good goal for you.

With the base you have, you should have plenty of endurance and leg strength, you need to focus on turnover.

In my opinion, you have to ability to maintain a ~7:30 pace (based on your fastest HM).

Yes, 3:17 is pretty aggressive, but running goals should be aggressive.

I mean, we do this shit to get better and faster right?

How fast does your plan say your speed work should be?

[guestT]

Speed work at 5K pace, then after that "strength" work at like 10 seconds faster than MP. Tempo runs at MP.

[run2death]

So like 6:30 to 6:45 half-mile and mile repeats, then 7:20 2-mile and 3-mile repeats, then up to 10 miles at MP?

Seems pretty doable.

Can you do all that tempo stuff on those icy roads or are you gonna hit the TM?

[guestT]

So like 6:30 to 6:45 half-mile and mile repeats, then 7:20 2-mile and 3-mile repeats, then up to 10 miles at MP?

Seems pretty doable.

Yep, pretty much exactly that.

Can you do all that tempo stuff on those icy roads or are you gonna hit the TM?

That's my big worry right now. It's early Dec and the roads are already in mid-Feb form. I don't have access to a TM at the moment, but could re-join the gym if I had to. Or buy a cheap one off CL. There's a bike path right behind my house that stays pretty clear and goes for 5+ miles in both directions, but that'll get boring fast.

[epilogue]

Things have been going so well. But today... goddamnit. My 7 mile 8:35 pace was good. But my left quad started screaming at me into mile 6. I went ahead and got out of the park and made it to 7 but jesus my leg hurts. My right knee is also a little tender. Maybe from compensating?

I'd intended to do a 10 miler today and I think I may have PR'd it had my leg not betrayed me.

[verb_to_trust]

I saw your run and immediately noticed the significant jump in your pace. Maybe you were pushing a little too hard? Either way, since you're complaining about your quad mostly that should just go away with rest.

[epilogue]

I saw your run and immediately noticed the significant jump in your pace. Maybe you were pushing a little too hard? Either way, since you're complaining about your quad mostly that should just go away with rest.

Very possible, yeah. I wasn't intentionally pushing. I was just running at a pace that felt comfortable. I've been doing a few 8:40 (ish) longer runs lately, so it didn't seem too crazy. But, yeah, I'm guessing with the cold and everything, I was probably going too hard. I'll take a couple of days off and see how I feel on Thursday.

[run2death]

So like 6:30 to 6:45 half-mile and mile repeats, then 7:20 2-mile and 3-mile repeats, then up to 10 miles at MP?

Seems pretty doable.

Yep, pretty much exactly that.

Can you do all that tempo stuff on those icy roads or are you gonna hit the TM?

That's my big worry right now. It's early Dec and the roads are already in mid-Feb form. I don't have access to a TM at the moment, but could re-join the gym if I had to. Or buy a cheap one off CL. There's a bike path right behind my house that stays pretty clear and goes for 5+ miles in both directions, but that'll get boring fast.

I'm now thinking about doing your Hanson plan for my February marathon.

Sorta intrigued by the speed/strength-off day-MP setup in the midweek.

Also, my son and daughter have activities in the coming months that are gonna curtail my available running time.

[guestT]

I'm having doubts again. I'm 100% sold on the plan, I just don't know if it's practical in WI in the winter. We got a very light dusting of snow overnight and just that little tiny bit made running ~7:45 feel recklessly fast this morning.

[run2death]

I'm having doubts again. I'm 100% sold on the plan, I just don't know if it's practical in WI in the winter. We got a very light dusting of snow overnight and just that little tiny bit made running ~7:45 feel recklessly fast this morning.

You gotta join a gym, man.

[guestT]

[verb_to_trust]

Either that or check into a hotel on bad weather days. Decent ones usually have acceptable treadmills.

[run2death]

I really like how simple this schedule is.

[guestT]

Is that Hansons? Or one you made?

I'm looking at the Boston Marathon plans now (level 2 & 3). Similar approach to speed/MP work as Hansons, but you get an extra off day and the long runs top out ~22. That extra off day would at least give me some flexibility to work around shitty weather.

[run2death]

It's a modified Hanson plan.

[Dev]

I'm having doubts again. I'm 100% sold on the plan, I just don't know if it's practical in WI in the winter. We got a very light dusting of snow overnight and just that little tiny bit made running ~7:45 feel recklessly fast this morning.

it's still good conditioning. you just can't run as fast in those conditions.