Lightning Bolt: the official album thread

[Birds in Hell]

A lot of songs on backspacer did well with maybe not joy but something like it. A sense of the carefree and even something potentially corny like love, in amongst the waves.

Potentially?

[dimejinky99]

My problem with that song spenno would lie more with the music than the lyrics.
I like the lyrics on that and the record overall.

[harmless]

A lot of songs on backspacer did well with maybe not joy but something like it. A sense of the carefree and even something potentially corny like love, in amongst the waves.

I agree. What I think Pearl Jam lacks is experience in creating, and then performing, those kinds of songs with any kind of apparent sincerity. In order to really 'look' that happy, if you're Ed, you're going to have to perform -- to act -- better than he ever has. I think they put a lot of thought in how to create their 'New Wave' sound on record; the problem is, imo, they just don't have the shtick to go with it. When I think of how something like The Fixer should have been performed, I always come to stuff like R.E.M's 'Shiny Happy People'. *THAT* kind of video treatment would have had everyone in here falling in love with The Fixer... if they'd done it well. The trouble is, we don't have Ed looking 'Shiny Happy', we have him looking intense and almost furious, which, conceptually, doesn't go with The Fixer at all. It looks fake.

[harmless]

A lot of songs on backspacer did well with maybe not joy but something like it. A sense of the carefree and even something potentially corny like love, in amongst the waves.

Potentially?

Love isn't *necessarily* corny, is it?

[balam]

I'm pretty sure the answer to this will depend entirely on the genre. As most rock albums (especially hard rock) are not created under these conditions, simply because that would subvert rock's expectations (and people have to sell records), I'm sure your answers from this board will be biased. I wonder if the answer would be different if you asked about, say, jazz or orchestral albums. 'The sublime', a mood which many more traditional artists talk about trying to achieve, including classical musicians, is an ecstatic emotion, a musical nirvana. It's not necessarily got anything to do with depression, anger, or a fight of any kind.

Yeah, but that's why I referenced Bono's comment about how difficult it is to do in a rock/pop setting. Like I said, I don't believe in the tortured artist rule per se, but as a genre, rock has proven to be a pretty brutal place for those who don't have some kind of discontentment in their work. I can see why Pearl Jam would feel the need to keep anger as a safety net.

[Lament]

Oops, sorry, missed that.

Post-rock, in a way, is more about evoking the sublime. 'Beauty' is just not something rock musicians tend to talk about, although some achieve it. A band like Sigur Ros will have no fear about saying that it's trying to create something beautiful, sonic poetry almost. Plenty of their music has been euphoric, free, and not tortured at all. They've done heavy, intense, even depressed, but never 'angry' as such (imo). My point (if I have one) is that rock musicians, on the whole, haven't tried to create a nuanced range of feelings and emotions in the listener. In the past, PJ have been very good at this for what, to all intents and purposes, is a plain old all-American rock band. But they're perhaps not self-aware, or aware of their process, enough to really push for something beyond the usual tortured rock music. And, well, when they've tried, have we really liked it? So you have a situation in which most great rock music is created under some tense, anxious conditions; but so is some of the worst, because in trying to create what your rock fans want, you can come off sounding contrived and forced. It's always amused me that people could call something like "Future Days" contrived or forced, because I have a hunch that it's the most honest kind of song Ed could be writing at the moment. The contented, cheeseball fans who will latch onto it know this.

Aaaaaaaaaand I wandered away from my point.

I don't think you wandered away from your point. I think you've made a really good case here. I agree with you that something like Future Days (or Just Breathe, for that matter) isn't contrived or forced; what I do think it is is a case where someone who has proven to be quite adept at painting from one side of the emotional spectrum doesn't have anywhere near the same gift on the other end of things. That's what I kinda meant in my first post about being in a weird position, and why I kinda think LB will be a mix of wading in the comfortable end of the dark side while doing a bit of toe-dipping in the (at this point probably more honest) light end. And I kinda can't blame them for that, because I don't think they're a band who would prove capable of making a Moondance or a Lovesexy, and I think if they tried to they'd end up getting crucified.

That being said, if they truly went all out into trying to express a whole range of emotions that fall outside of their comfort zone over the course of an entire record and failed miserably, I feel like I'd be ok with that (I don't really consider BS a happy/joyful/content album as a whole). But I'm probably in the minority. It's probably an ambition better suited ambition for an Ed solo record anyways.

[verb_to_trust]

Ed has to be happy. A hot wife, healthy kids, more money than God. Lots of people who think hes important and kiss his ass, famous musician friends.......great for Ed, it just doesn't make for interesting or relatable subject matter for an album. And thats what BS has always been to me: the we're happy and satisfied with our awesome lives album. Its just boring.

[verb_to_trust]

I'm pretty sure the answer to this will depend entirely on the genre. As most rock albums (especially hard rock) are not created under these conditions, simply because that would subvert rock's expectations (and people have to sell records), I'm sure your answers from this board will be biased. I wonder if the answer would be different if you asked about, say, jazz or orchestral albums. 'The sublime', a mood which many more traditional artists talk about trying to achieve, including classical musicians, is an ecstatic emotion, a musical nirvana. It's not necessarily got anything to do with depression, anger, or a fight of any kind.

Yeah, but that's why I referenced Bono's comment about how difficult it is to do in a rock/pop setting. Like I said, I don't believe in the tortured artist rule per se, but as a genre, rock has proven to be a pretty brutal place for those who don't have some kind of discontentment in their work. I can see why Pearl Jam would feel the need to keep anger as a safety net.

Excellent first post.

Channeling your inner pop star at 45 is what everyone wants to hear out of Pearl Jam and NIN, obviously...

[harmless]

Oops, sorry, missed that.

Post-rock, in a way, is more about evoking the sublime. 'Beauty' is just not something rock musicians tend to talk about, although some achieve it. A band like Sigur Ros will have no fear about saying that it's trying to create something beautiful, sonic poetry almost. Plenty of their music has been euphoric, free, and not tortured at all. They've done heavy, intense, even depressed, but never 'angry' as such (imo). My point (if I have one) is that rock musicians, on the whole, haven't tried to create a nuanced range of feelings and emotions in the listener. In the past, PJ have been very good at this for what, to all intents and purposes, is a plain old all-American rock band. But they're perhaps not self-aware, or aware of their process, enough to really push for something beyond the usual tortured rock music. And, well, when they've tried, have we really liked it? So you have a situation in which most great rock music is created under some tense, anxious conditions; but so is some of the worst, because in trying to create what your rock fans want, you can come off sounding contrived and forced. It's always amused me that people could call something like "Future Days" contrived or forced, because I have a hunch that it's the most honest kind of song Ed could be writing at the moment. The contented, cheeseball fans who will latch onto it know this.

Aaaaaaaaaand I wandered away from my point.

I don't think you wandered away from your point. I think you've made a really good case here. I agree with you that something like Future Days (or Just Breathe, for that matter) isn't contrived or forced; what I do think it is is a case where someone who has proven to be quite adept at painting from one side of the emotional spectrum doesn't have anywhere near the same gift on the other end of things. That's what I kinda meant in my first post about being in a weird position, and why I kinda think LB will be a mix of wading in the comfortable end of the dark side while doing a bit of toe-dipping in the (at this point probably more honest) light end. And I kinda can't blame them for that, because I don't think they're a band who would prove capable of making a Moondance or a Lovesexy, and I think if they tried to they'd end up getting crucified.

That being said, if they truly went all out into trying to express a whole range of emotions that fall outside of their comfort zone over the course of an entire record and failed miserably, I feel like I'd be ok with that (I don't really consider BS a happy/joyful/content album as a whole). But I'm probably in the minority. It's probably an ambition better suited ambition for an Ed solo record anyways.

I agree with you entirely here.

And it's just me talking to myself, but I still have a hunch that S/T began a phase of experimentation. It said that PJ wasn't the same band that we remember anymore. They've changed, largely after the events surrounding Riot Act. They can't be this emotionally one-sided band anymore, so whether or not they're good at everything they try out, they're sure as hell going to try to create a more nuanced, mature and diverse palette of moods and emotions. They went all out on Backspacer, and tried to create a pop record. Who knows what we'll get this time (obviously a little more of the usual, but what else?). I think PJ knows at this point that they can't plaster an entire album with avant-garde experimentation, they have to drip-feed the casual fan with it (they're not into alienating those these days). But I think all this pop experimentation, whether or not we like it, is experimentation nonetheless. Hopefully they'll become better, after some years of trying it, at creating those different sides of the emotional coin.

[BurtReynolds]

Ed has to be happy. A hot wife, healthy kids, more money than God. Lots of people who think hes important and kiss his ass, famous musician friends.......great for Ed, it just doesn't make for interesting or relatable subject matter for an album. And thats what BS has always been to me: the we're happy and satisfied with our awesome lives album. Its just boring.

also: a dem in the white house.

[harmless]

Seriously though, do none of us enjoy any pop musicians / bands / artists who are filthy rich and happy about it? I'm certain that we do. The difference between them and PJ, though, might just be that they're good at looking happy and PJ aren't. Seriously, if PJ were creating happy music which was half as entertaining as Daft Punk at the moment, I'd be all over it. There is no vague hint of the over-privileged, rich and lucky musician in songs like 'Get Lucky'. But they're cool so we don't care.

[harmless]

I guess I never had an expectation that PJ *should* sound tense, angry and tortured. I love them enough to give them a chance whatever they want to do. Backspacer doesn't lack because it's happy, it lacks because it's not very good, and better bands have done it. I've always asked that PJ make good music; and it's not been that good for a while. Simple as that, really.

[BurtReynolds]

Contentment doesn't mean wealth.

Most great happy songs are written by people far from contentment.

Many happy songs aren't really as happy as I thought. (Dock of the Bay comes to mind).

Some artists are content but can still pull from times when they weren't. Ed doesn't seem that interested in that or able.

ah forget it, I can't keep up with Harmy's rapid firing posts!

[harmless]

Contentment doesn't mean wealth.

Most great happy songs are written by people far from contentment.

Many happy songs aren't really as happy as I thought. (Dock of the Bay comes to mind).

Some artists are content but can still pull from times when they weren't. Ed doesn't seem that interested in that or able.

ah forget it, I can't keep up with Harmy's rapid firing posts!

Pew! Pew!

I WANT MORE SONGS.

[Lament]

Backspacer doesn't lack because it's happy, it lacks because it's not very good, and better bands have done it. I've always asked that PJ make good music; and it's not been that good for a while. Simple as that, really.

[Sgt. Crackpot]

Contentment doesn't mean wealth.

Most great happy songs are written by people far from contentment.

Many happy songs aren't really as happy as I thought. (Dock of the Bay comes to mind).

Some artists are content but can still pull from times when they weren't. Ed doesn't seem that interested in that or able.

ah forget it, I can't keep up with Harmy's rapid firing posts!

Pew! Pew!

I WANT MORE SONGS.

[Dr. Van Nostrand]

Contentment doesn't mean wealth.

Most great happy songs are written by people far from contentment.

Many happy songs aren't really as happy as I thought. (Dock of the Bay comes to mind).

Some artists are content but can still pull from times when they weren't. Ed doesn't seem that interested in that or able.

ah forget it, I can't keep up with Harmy's rapid firing posts!

Pew! Pew!

I WANT MORE SONGS.

Is that one of the song titles?

[bodysnatcher]

the lightning bolt tattoos within the PJ fanbase will be growing exponentially in the next year

[Jorge]

Tom Waits recorded some of his best music when he was already settled down and sober.

[verb_to_trust]

Thats like comparing apples and watermelons...