Red Mosquito

Norah · Post by **Norah** » Sun August 25, 2013 4:17 am

Fuck RBI.

numbers · Post by **numbers** » Sun August 25, 2013 11:51 am

There are plenty of sabermetrics peeps who dismiss wins as meaningless, Brian Kenny was on MLB network the other day going on and on about how Kuroda should win the cy young over Scherzer and his main argument was because wins mean nothing.

@SkitchP · Post by **@SkitchP** » Sun August 25, 2013 2:09 pm

numbers wrote:There are plenty of sabermetrics peeps who dismiss wins as meaningless, Brian Kenny was on MLB network the other day going on and on about how Kuroda should win the cy young over Scherzer and his main argument was because wins mean nothing.

It's funny how the extremes almost hold wins AGAINST a pitcher.

EJ · Post by EJ » Sun August 25, 2013 2:19 pm

@SkitchP wrote:
numbers wrote:There are plenty of sabermetrics peeps who dismiss wins as meaningless, Brian Kenny was on MLB network the other day going on and on about how Kuroda should win the cy young over Scherzer and his main argument was because wins mean nothing.

It's funny how the extremes almost hold wins AGAINST a pitcher.

He certainly showed his mettle against Harvey, who is already one of the best starters in MLB.

numbers · Post by **numbers** » Sun August 25, 2013 2:22 pm

@SkitchP wrote:
numbers wrote:There are plenty of sabermetrics peeps who dismiss wins as meaningless, Brian Kenny was on MLB network the other day going on and on about how Kuroda should win the cy young over Scherzer and his main argument was because wins mean nothing.[/]

It's funny how the extremes almost hold wins AGAINST a pitcher.

They do the same thing with rbis and hrs

philpritchard · Post by **philpritchard** » Sun August 25, 2013 6:15 pm

numbers wrote:
@SkitchP wrote:
numbers wrote:There are plenty of sabermetrics peeps who dismiss wins as meaningless, Brian Kenny was on MLB network the other day going on and on about how Kuroda should win the cy young over Scherzer and his main argument was because wins mean nothing.[/]

It's funny how the extremes almost hold wins AGAINST a pitcher.
They do the same thing with rbis and hrs

I don't think anyone really does that, though (and uh... no one does it at all with homeruns). Sabermetric people tend to want to credit players with what they can control, especially when voting on individual awards. In that way, wins and RBI are pretty much meaningless.

Which pitcher had a better season, all else being essentially equal?

Pitcher A: 11-5, 2.50 ERA
Pitcher B: 18-2, 2.80 ERA

@SkitchP · Post by **@SkitchP** » Sun August 25, 2013 7:40 pm

philpritchard wrote:
numbers wrote:
@SkitchP wrote:
numbers wrote:There are plenty of sabermetrics peeps who dismiss wins as meaningless, Brian Kenny was on MLB network the other day going on and on about how Kuroda should win the cy young over Scherzer and his main argument was because wins mean nothing.[/]

It's funny how the extremes almost hold wins AGAINST a pitcher.
They do the same thing with rbis and hrs
I don't think anyone really does that, though (and uh... no one does it at all with homeruns). Sabermetric people tend to want to credit players with what they can control, especially when voting on individual awards. In that way, wins and RBI are pretty much meaningless.

Which pitcher had a better season, all else being essentially equal?

Pitcher A: 11-5, 2.50 ERA
Pitcher B: 18-2, 2.80 ERA

Brian Kenny HATES wins. He doesn't just discount them.

numbers · Post by **numbers** » Sun August 25, 2013 7:46 pm

@SkitchP wrote:
philpritchard wrote:
numbers wrote:
@SkitchP wrote:
numbers wrote:There are plenty of sabermetrics peeps who dismiss wins as meaningless, Brian Kenny was on MLB network the other day going on and on about how Kuroda should win the cy young over Scherzer and his main argument was because wins mean nothing.[/]

It's funny how the extremes almost hold wins AGAINST a pitcher.
They do the same thing with rbis and hrs
I don't think anyone really does that, though (and uh... no one does it at all with homeruns). Sabermetric people tend to want to credit players with what they can control, especially when voting on individual awards. In that way, wins and RBI are pretty much meaningless.

Which pitcher had a better season, all else being essentially equal?

Pitcher A: 11-5, 2.50 ERA
Pitcher B: 18-2, 2.80 ERA

Brian Kenny HATES wins. He doesn't just discount them.

His hatred of wins is so over the top outrageous. He is the poster child for sabermetrics gone too far.

@SkitchP · Post by **@SkitchP** » Sun August 25, 2013 7:55 pm

numbers wrote:
@SkitchP wrote:
philpritchard wrote:
numbers wrote:
@SkitchP wrote:
numbers wrote:There are plenty of sabermetrics peeps who dismiss wins as meaningless, Brian Kenny was on MLB network the other day going on and on about how Kuroda should win the cy young over Scherzer and his main argument was because wins mean nothing.[/]

It's funny how the extremes almost hold wins AGAINST a pitcher.
They do the same thing with rbis and hrs
I don't think anyone really does that, though (and uh... no one does it at all with homeruns). Sabermetric people tend to want to credit players with what they can control, especially when voting on individual awards. In that way, wins and RBI are pretty much meaningless.

Which pitcher had a better season, all else being essentially equal?

Pitcher A: 11-5, 2.50 ERA
Pitcher B: 18-2, 2.80 ERA

Brian Kenny HATES wins. He doesn't just discount them.
His hatred of wins is so over the top outrageous. He is the poster child for sabermetrics gone too far.

It's like when C_B decided he didn't believe in god anymore.

MadTIGERmaN · Post by **MadTIGERmaN** » Sun August 25, 2013 9:25 pm

only thing he hates more than wins, is bunting!

i really dislike him, and love when the ex-players give him the "shut up dude, did you even play the game? WE DID" look, but at the same time... its good having the different opinion on the network/shows... gives it some spice

Norah · Post by **Norah** » Sun August 25, 2013 10:41 pm

Brian Kenny definitely plays it up to have a "debate" show. I really wish MLB Network wouldn't do that ESPN bullshit.

numbers · Post by **numbers** » Sun August 25, 2013 11:35 pm

cutuphalfdead wrote:Brian Kenny definitely plays it up to have a "debate" show. I really wish MLB Network wouldn't do that ESPN bullshit.

It doesnt really work on that show either, Reynolds isnt going to debate him, he's just like "bro, you need to chill, wins mean something."

Norah · Post by **Norah** » Mon August 26, 2013 12:13 am

numbers wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:Brian Kenny definitely plays it up to have a "debate" show. I really wish MLB Network wouldn't do that ESPN bullshit.
It doesnt really work on that show either, Reynolds isnt going to debate him, he's just like "bro, you need to chill, wins mean something."

That show is awful.

philpritchard · Post by **philpritchard** » Mon August 26, 2013 1:01 am

numbers wrote:
@SkitchP wrote:
philpritchard wrote:
numbers wrote:
@SkitchP wrote:
numbers wrote:There are plenty of sabermetrics peeps who dismiss wins as meaningless, Brian Kenny was on MLB network the other day going on and on about how Kuroda should win the cy young over Scherzer and his main argument was because wins mean nothing.[/]

It's funny how the extremes almost hold wins AGAINST a pitcher.
They do the same thing with rbis and hrs
I don't think anyone really does that, though (and uh... no one does it at all with homeruns). Sabermetric people tend to want to credit players with what they can control, especially when voting on individual awards. In that way, wins and RBI are pretty much meaningless.

Which pitcher had a better season, all else being essentially equal?

Pitcher A: 11-5, 2.50 ERA
Pitcher B: 18-2, 2.80 ERA

Brian Kenny HATES wins. He doesn't just discount them.
His hatred of wins is so over the top outrageous. He is the poster child for sabermetrics gone too far.

I honestly don't even really know who he is, but it sounds like he's the poster child for a misunderstanding of sabermetrics.

Peeps · Post by **Peeps** » Mon August 26, 2013 1:37 am

i hope kruk is ok, they are saying dehydration

Joesanity · Post by **Joesanity** » Mon August 26, 2013 1:32 pm

Wins are a junk stat that should be ignored.

Scherzer should win the Cy Young anyway because when you ignore the wins he's still had the best season.

numbers · Post by **numbers** » Mon August 26, 2013 4:18 pm

Joesanity wrote:Wins are a junk stat that should be ignored.

Scherzer should win the Cy Young anyway because when you ignore the wins he's still had the best season.

Right because the team that finishes the season with the best WAR wins the division.

Norah · Post by **Norah** » Mon August 26, 2013 4:27 pm

numbers wrote:
Joesanity wrote:Wins are a junk stat that should be ignored.

Scherzer should win the Cy Young anyway because when you ignore the wins he's still had the best season.
Right because the team that finishes the season with the best WAR wins the division.

Wins are a great way to evaluate a team, just not an individual pitcher.

Joesanity · Post by **Joesanity** » Mon August 26, 2013 5:03 pm

cutuphalfdead wrote:
numbers wrote:
Joesanity wrote:Wins are a junk stat that should be ignored.

Scherzer should win the Cy Young anyway because when you ignore the wins he's still had the best season.
Right because the team that finishes the season with the best WAR wins the division.
Wins are a great way to evaluate a team, just not an individual pitcher.

philpritchard · Post by **philpritchard** » Mon August 26, 2013 6:18 pm

numbers wrote:
Joesanity wrote:Wins are a junk stat that should be ignored.

Scherzer should win the Cy Young anyway because when you ignore the wins he's still had the best season.
Right because the team that finishes the season with the best WAR wins the division.

No one has even mentioned WAR. We're talking about things like ERA, strikeouts, WHIP... you know, things the pitcher has some kind of control over.

Here's something for you: Max Scherzer's run support this year is 7.32 runs/9 innings. Of course he's winning a lot - it's like his opposing pitcher is a AA pitcher every single night. If Scherzer had a 5.50 ERA, he would likely still have a better record than Felix Hernandez.

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