HBO: Game of Thrones (Song of Ice and Fire)

[Mecca]

Didn't Jon end up right where he would have wanted anyway? If he could have chosen? Doesn't seem like a bad deal to me.

He ended up where he had been happiest, the only place he had found love, so yeah I don't see it as too bad. It's a wonderful parallel with Ned's original choice as well.

I didn't mind any of that. Just the way that council glossed over the fact that he is the true heir... I think he should have been presented with the option of king then turn it down and go north. It was close, but I felt like after all the work he did that they just left him out to dry and moved on without him.

The show is pretty clear that love is a weakness. So, sending Jon to "the only place he had found love" is a bit of a mixed message at best, and a curse at worst.

The best (and to my mind only satisfying) ending to Jon Snow was death. And yet going into this episode, I knew he would not die. That was clear and therefore, I was totally prepared for an unsatisfying ending to his story. It wasn't too big a pill to swallow for me.

Duty is the death of love. Jon ended up on the opposing side from both women he ever loved, stabbing one in the heart for the greater good. Returning to a place of duty seemed fitting to me.

[Mecca]

Didn't Jon end up right where he would have wanted anyway? If he could have chosen? Doesn't seem like a bad deal to me.

He ended up where he had been happiest, the only place he had found love, so yeah I don't see it as too bad. It's a wonderful parallel with Ned's original choice as well.

I didn't mind any of that. Just the way that council glossed over the fact that he is the true heir... I think he should have been presented with the option of king then turn it down and go north. It was close, but I felt like after all the work he did that they just left him out to dry and moved on without him.

The conclusion of that council was that merit is a better form of choosing a ruler than bloodlines

I get that, and regardless of bloodlines, Jon should have been under consideration. He brings people together, is a natural leader, and a war hero. Additionally, he has the name.

"Daenerys Targaryen murdered scores of thousands of innocent people to try and take the throne, and we have come up with a new system to put leaders on the throne that the people can trust. Please welcome your new king...Aegon Targaryen."

Yep, regardless of name / bloodlines, Jon would have been a good candidate. He then politely refuses, and goes north (not because he was banished).

You gotta let go, darth

[Mecca]

Didn't Jon end up right where he would have wanted anyway? If he could have chosen? Doesn't seem like a bad deal to me.

He ended up where he had been happiest, the only place he had found love, so yeah I don't see it as too bad. It's a wonderful parallel with Ned's original choice as well.

I didn't mind any of that. Just the way that council glossed over the fact that he is the true heir... I think he should have been presented with the option of king then turn it down and go north. It was close, but I felt like after all the work he did that they just left him out to dry and moved on without him.

The conclusion of that council was that merit is a better form of choosing a ruler than bloodlines

And that is one of the things that felt so wrong about that scene. Everyone there is there because of bloodlines, likely with a lot of unhappy peasants back home, they are just going to flip to some kind of electoral system just like that and not think that they are going to get the same treatment applied to them and their families? At least Sam should remember what democracy lead to at the Wall when Jon got elected.

It would’ve been less believable if they went from monarchy directly to democracy

[Monkey_Driven]

Didn't Jon end up right where he would have wanted anyway? If he could have chosen? Doesn't seem like a bad deal to me.

He ended up where he had been happiest, the only place he had found love, so yeah I don't see it as too bad. It's a wonderful parallel with Ned's original choice as well.

I didn't mind any of that. Just the way that council glossed over the fact that he is the true heir... I think he should have been presented with the option of king then turn it down and go north. It was close, but I felt like after all the work he did that they just left him out to dry and moved on without him.

The conclusion of that council was that merit is a better form of choosing a ruler than bloodlines

And that is one of the things that felt so wrong about that scene. Everyone there is there because of bloodlines, likely with a lot of unhappy peasants back home, they are just going to flip to some kind of electoral system just like that and not think that they are going to get the same treatment applied to them and their families? At least Sam should remember what democracy lead to at the Wall when Jon got elected.

It would’ve been less believable if they went from monarchy directly to democracy

Correct.

[epilogue]

Didn't Jon end up right where he would have wanted anyway? If he could have chosen? Doesn't seem like a bad deal to me.

He ended up where he had been happiest, the only place he had found love, so yeah I don't see it as too bad. It's a wonderful parallel with Ned's original choice as well.

I didn't mind any of that. Just the way that council glossed over the fact that he is the true heir... I think he should have been presented with the option of king then turn it down and go north. It was close, but I felt like after all the work he did that they just left him out to dry and moved on without him.

The show is pretty clear that love is a weakness. So, sending Jon to "the only place he had found love" is a bit of a mixed message at best, and a curse at worst.

The best (and to my mind only satisfying) ending to Jon Snow was death. And yet going into this episode, I knew he would not die. That was clear and therefore, I was totally prepared for an unsatisfying ending to his story. It wasn't too big a pill to swallow for me.

Duty is the death of love. Jon ended up on the opposing side from both women he ever loved, stabbing one in the heart for the greater good. Returning to a place of duty seemed fitting to me.

Sure. I can appreciate that take. Seems fair. Put I would say, only up to a point. He can (and it makes sense that he does) return to a place of duty. But he can die and still have that be true. His exile feel hollow to me, regardless of your point.

[darth_vedder]

Didn't Jon end up right where he would have wanted anyway? If he could have chosen? Doesn't seem like a bad deal to me.

He ended up where he had been happiest, the only place he had found love, so yeah I don't see it as too bad. It's a wonderful parallel with Ned's original choice as well.

I didn't mind any of that. Just the way that council glossed over the fact that he is the true heir... I think he should have been presented with the option of king then turn it down and go north. It was close, but I felt like after all the work he did that they just left him out to dry and moved on without him.

The conclusion of that council was that merit is a better form of choosing a ruler than bloodlines

I get that, and regardless of bloodlines, Jon should have been under consideration. He brings people together, is a natural leader, and a war hero. Additionally, he has the name.

"Daenerys Targaryen murdered scores of thousands of innocent people to try and take the throne, and we have come up with a new system to put leaders on the throne that the people can trust. Please welcome your new king...Aegon Targaryen."

Yep, regardless of name / bloodlines, Jon would have been a good candidate. He then politely refuses, and goes north (not because he was banished).

You gotta let go, darth

You are probably right, I just don't like that he was banished for something that he had to do. Other than that, I was fine with him going back up north.

[Mecca]

Didn't Jon end up right where he would have wanted anyway? If he could have chosen? Doesn't seem like a bad deal to me.

He ended up where he had been happiest, the only place he had found love, so yeah I don't see it as too bad. It's a wonderful parallel with Ned's original choice as well.

I didn't mind any of that. Just the way that council glossed over the fact that he is the true heir... I think he should have been presented with the option of king then turn it down and go north. It was close, but I felt like after all the work he did that they just left him out to dry and moved on without him.

The show is pretty clear that love is a weakness. So, sending Jon to "the only place he had found love" is a bit of a mixed message at best, and a curse at worst.

The best (and to my mind only satisfying) ending to Jon Snow was death. And yet going into this episode, I knew he would not die. That was clear and therefore, I was totally prepared for an unsatisfying ending to his story. It wasn't too big a pill to swallow for me.

Duty is the death of love. Jon ended up on the opposing side from both women he ever loved, stabbing one in the heart for the greater good. Returning to a place of duty seemed fitting to me.

Sure. I can appreciate that take. Seems fair. Put I would say, only up to a point. He can (and it makes sense that he does) return to a place of duty. But he can die and still have that be true. His exile feel hollow to me, regardless of your point.

Maybe his exile is actually purgatory

[washing machine]

Did anyone else immediately think of Tetra from Wind Waker during the shots of Arya sailing west?

[epilogue]

Didn't Jon end up right where he would have wanted anyway? If he could have chosen? Doesn't seem like a bad deal to me.

He ended up where he had been happiest, the only place he had found love, so yeah I don't see it as too bad. It's a wonderful parallel with Ned's original choice as well.

I didn't mind any of that. Just the way that council glossed over the fact that he is the true heir... I think he should have been presented with the option of king then turn it down and go north. It was close, but I felt like after all the work he did that they just left him out to dry and moved on without him.

The show is pretty clear that love is a weakness. So, sending Jon to "the only place he had found love" is a bit of a mixed message at best, and a curse at worst.

The best (and to my mind only satisfying) ending to Jon Snow was death. And yet going into this episode, I knew he would not die. That was clear and therefore, I was totally prepared for an unsatisfying ending to his story. It wasn't too big a pill to swallow for me.

Duty is the death of love. Jon ended up on the opposing side from both women he ever loved, stabbing one in the heart for the greater good. Returning to a place of duty seemed fitting to me.

Sure. I can appreciate that take. Seems fair. Put I would say, only up to a point. He can (and it makes sense that he does) return to a place of duty. But he can die and still have that be true. His exile feel hollow to me, regardless of your point.

Maybe his exile is actually purgatory

i see what you did there

[Monkey_Driven]

Did anyone else immediately think of Tetra from Wind Waker during the shots of Arya sailing west?

Yes!

[Chris_H_2]

What is the wall/Night’s Watch protecting them from now?

i asked this a long time ago. careful -- the natives here will get angry at you posing otherwise legitimate questions.

[washing machine]

Did anyone else immediately think of Tetra from Wind Waker during the shots of Arya sailing west?

Yes!

The best spinoff from this series would probably be a video game with some variation on that. I could see that being cool, with the added bonus of not really tarnishing the canon and legacy of the story too much.

Spoiler: show

I know, I know...”D&D already did plenty of legacy tarnishing” etc

[darth_vedder]

What is the wall/Night’s Watch protecting them from now?

i asked this a long time ago. careful -- the natives here will get angry at you posing otherwise legitimate questions.

They should have destroyed the wall, and just made it a prison camp for all the awful people like Jon.

[Mecca]

What is the wall/Night’s Watch protecting them from now?

i asked this a long time ago. careful -- the natives here will get angry at you posing otherwise legitimate questions.

I don’t think wildlings will just go back to completely civil people

[darth_vedder]

What is the wall/Night’s Watch protecting them from now?

i asked this a long time ago. careful -- the natives here will get angry at you posing otherwise legitimate questions.

I don’t think wildlings will just go back to completely civil people

Jon will be their king beyond the wall and keep them in line.

[Bi_3]

Didn't Jon end up right where he would have wanted anyway? If he could have chosen? Doesn't seem like a bad deal to me.

He ended up where he had been happiest, the only place he had found love, so yeah I don't see it as too bad. It's a wonderful parallel with Ned's original choice as well.

I didn't mind any of that. Just the way that council glossed over the fact that he is the true heir... I think he should have been presented with the option of king then turn it down and go north. It was close, but I felt like after all the work he did that they just left him out to dry and moved on without him.

The show is pretty clear that love is a weakness. So, sending Jon to "the only place he had found love" is a bit of a mixed message at best, and a curse at worst.

The best (and to my mind only satisfying) ending to Jon Snow was death. And yet going into this episode, I knew he would not die. That was clear and therefore, I was totally prepared for an unsatisfying ending to his story. It wasn't too big a pill to swallow for me.

Duty is the death of love. Jon ended up on the opposing side from both women he ever loved, stabbing one in the heart for the greater good. Returning to a place of duty seemed fitting to me.

Sure. I can appreciate that take. Seems fair. Put I would say, only up to a point. He can (and it makes sense that he does) return to a place of duty. But he can die and still have that be true. His exile feel hollow to me, regardless of your point.

Maybe his exile is actually purgatory

i see what you did there

Can you explain? I'm lost.

[epilogue]

Didn't Jon end up right where he would have wanted anyway? If he could have chosen? Doesn't seem like a bad deal to me.

He ended up where he had been happiest, the only place he had found love, so yeah I don't see it as too bad. It's a wonderful parallel with Ned's original choice as well.

I didn't mind any of that. Just the way that council glossed over the fact that he is the true heir... I think he should have been presented with the option of king then turn it down and go north. It was close, but I felt like after all the work he did that they just left him out to dry and moved on without him.

The show is pretty clear that love is a weakness. So, sending Jon to "the only place he had found love" is a bit of a mixed message at best, and a curse at worst.

The best (and to my mind only satisfying) ending to Jon Snow was death. And yet going into this episode, I knew he would not die. That was clear and therefore, I was totally prepared for an unsatisfying ending to his story. It wasn't too big a pill to swallow for me.

Duty is the death of love. Jon ended up on the opposing side from both women he ever loved, stabbing one in the heart for the greater good. Returning to a place of duty seemed fitting to me.

Sure. I can appreciate that take. Seems fair. Put I would say, only up to a point. He can (and it makes sense that he does) return to a place of duty. But he can die and still have that be true. His exile feel hollow to me, regardless of your point.

Maybe his exile is actually purgatory

i see what you did there

Can you explain? I'm lost.

Look dude, I don't have time to give you a crash course in this right now. I don't mean to strand you on an island. But I'm just too busy to sit here and press buttons all day.

[Simple Torture]

I can't believe Jon was dead the entire time.

[Bi_3]

Didn't Jon end up right where he would have wanted anyway? If he could have chosen? Doesn't seem like a bad deal to me.

He ended up where he had been happiest, the only place he had found love, so yeah I don't see it as too bad. It's a wonderful parallel with Ned's original choice as well.

I didn't mind any of that. Just the way that council glossed over the fact that he is the true heir... I think he should have been presented with the option of king then turn it down and go north. It was close, but I felt like after all the work he did that they just left him out to dry and moved on without him.

The conclusion of that council was that merit is a better form of choosing a ruler than bloodlines

And that is one of the things that felt so wrong about that scene. Everyone there is there because of bloodlines, likely with a lot of unhappy peasants back home, they are just going to flip to some kind of electoral system just like that and not think that they are going to get the same treatment applied to them and their families? At least Sam should remember what democracy lead to at the Wall when Jon got elected.

It would’ve been less believable if they went from monarchy directly to democracy

Correct.

But why go there at all? A sudden pledge to remake the entire system of governance seems wrong in a show that was all about the ideological battle of how the ruling class should work and the infighting associated with that (sopranos with swords).

Cut the scene and the need to have someone on the throne just have the small council be like "WTF do we do now?" as Grey Worm sails off...

[Jorge]

So wait, on balance, what is RM's opinion of the finale?

Just respond to this post with the word "Good" or "Bad". DON'T GET INTO DETAILS