A Song Of Ice and Fire (Spoilers for all Published Books)

[washing machine]

That season 5 stuff is where it really gets interesting for me during this first read of A Clash of Kings. If I'm not mistaken, that's about the time the lines between GRRM's story and D&D's story got blurred, so I'm reading characters like Stannis and Hodor and finding foreshadowing of events that may or may not happen in the ASOIAF universe, yet I'm also reading Robb and the Freys with the knowledge that the Red Wedding is definitely a thing in the books. It's a wild ride.

[wease]

Has any of what's happened in this season been represented in the books?

0.00%

So, since the show outpaced the books, I wonder if he will follow anything that’s happened in the show.

The showrunners have been coy about the things Martin has told them about vs what they invented on their own. It's pretty much accepted that the burning of Shireen and "hold the door" are both from Martin's mouth. It sure sounds like, based on some of the interviews in post-show, behind-the-scenes features, that things like Arya's role in defeating the White Walkers are 100% choices made by the showrunners.

Exactly.

Wease, maybe you've heard, or not, but D&D have said that when they spoke with Martin about the overall trajectory, he told them three things that made them say "Holy Shit!" We're pretty sure that two of them are the events ST mentioned. They have not said what the third one is but they did indicate that it would come "at the end." Was that Dany roasting Kings' Landing? Some fans think it is. But it could also still be unseen at this point.

Given that The Night King as we know him on the show is not at all in the books, it's pretty easy to imagine that the Battle of Winterfell and Arya's role in it, are purely show inventions, as ST said.

Thanks guys. I didn’t know any of this. “Hold the door” is one of my favorite things in the whole series

[epilogue]

Has any of what's happened in this season been represented in the books?

0.00%

So, since the show outpaced the books, I wonder if he will follow anything that’s happened in the show.

The showrunners have been coy about the things Martin has told them about vs what they invented on their own. It's pretty much accepted that the burning of Shireen and "hold the door" are both from Martin's mouth. It sure sounds like, based on some of the interviews in post-show, behind-the-scenes features, that things like Arya's role in defeating the White Walkers are 100% choices made by the showrunners.

Exactly.

Wease, maybe you've heard, or not, but D&D have said that when they spoke with Martin about the overall trajectory, he told them three things that made them say "Holy Shit!" We're pretty sure that two of them are the events ST mentioned. They have not said what the third one is but they did indicate that it would come "at the end." Was that Dany roasting Kings' Landing? Some fans think it is. But it could also still be unseen at this point.

Given that The Night King as we know him on the show is not at all in the books, it's pretty easy to imagine that the Battle of Winterfell and Arya's role in it, are purely show inventions, as ST said.

Thanks guys. I didn’t know any of this. “Hold the door” is one of my favorite things in the whole series

SO fucking awesome. That scene was brutal and amazing.

[wease]

Has any of what's happened in this season been represented in the books?

0.00%

So, since the show outpaced the books, I wonder if he will follow anything that’s happened in the show.

The showrunners have been coy about the things Martin has told them about vs what they invented on their own. It's pretty much accepted that the burning of Shireen and "hold the door" are both from Martin's mouth. It sure sounds like, based on some of the interviews in post-show, behind-the-scenes features, that things like Arya's role in defeating the White Walkers are 100% choices made by the showrunners.

Exactly.

Wease, maybe you've heard, or not, but D&D have said that when they spoke with Martin about the overall trajectory, he told them three things that made them say "Holy Shit!" We're pretty sure that two of them are the events ST mentioned. They have not said what the third one is but they did indicate that it would come "at the end." Was that Dany roasting Kings' Landing? Some fans think it is. But it could also still be unseen at this point.

Given that The Night King as we know him on the show is not at all in the books, it's pretty easy to imagine that the Battle of Winterfell and Arya's role in it, are purely show inventions, as ST said.

Thanks guys. I didn’t know any of this. “Hold the door” is one of my favorite things in the whole series

SO fucking awesome. That scene was brutal and amazing.

It so was. Obviously, I’m not as invested in this as some of you guys are, but I do appreciate the explanations.

[daft twat]

This is getting close!

[Brett]

So much dread reading A Storm of Swords and knowing what's going to happen in the major events. George sets things up masterfully and then just lets the hammer drop, reader emotions be damned. You can also see how he was building towards a major shift in the story with this book being the end of act one and then act two picking up after his planned time jump. It's no wonder there was such a tonal shift for the next two books.

[liebzz]

So much dread reading A Storm of Swords and knowing what's going to happen in the major events. George sets things up masterfully and then just lets the hammer drop, reader emotions be damned. You can also see how he was building towards a major shift in the story with this book being the end of act one and then act two picking up after his planned time jump. It's no wonder there was such a tonal shift for the next two books.

In my mind, the shift from book 3 into books 4 & 5 is unfortunate. This is the point where his universe expands so much that we lose sight of the story altogether. Instead of focusing the points of view from the 8 or so masterfully crafted characters, he jumps to like 30 characters making it impossible to follow. Notwithstanding the TV show, it’s hard to fathom how the story ever ties up with so many sudden loose threads. The story needs a “Cersei blows up the sept and half the character with it” moment just to make the books cohesive again.

[BurtReynolds]

That's similar to my feelings on the books. There are only two more, right? That's a lot to wrap up in two books.

The last two felt like history lessons to me. Too much "walking and talking" for me. I hope the delay isn't causing him to add even more stuff. The later books are ok but not nearly as good as the earlier ones when I felt a much more direct connection to the characters.

[Norah]

Except ADWD is the best book.

[liebzz]

This is RM so we rank things: 3, 1, 2, 5, 4

I am reading Fire and Blood right now. Not nearly as engaging as the main books but an interesting history of the Targaryens nonetheless. I am most of the way through. Covers from the conquest to about 135 years later so far 94% in.

[psychobain]

Bought that book and never looked into it...should i?

[Brett]

So much dread reading A Storm of Swords and knowing what's going to happen in the major events. George sets things up masterfully and then just lets the hammer drop, reader emotions be damned. You can also see how he was building towards a major shift in the story with this book being the end of act one and then act two picking up after his planned time jump. It's no wonder there was such a tonal shift for the next two books.

In my mind, the shift from book 3 into books 4 & 5 is unfortunate. This is the point where his universe expands so much that we lose sight of the story altogether. Instead of focusing the points of view from the 8 or so masterfully crafted characters, he jumps to like 30 characters making it impossible to follow. Notwithstanding the TV show, it’s hard to fathom how the story ever ties up with so many sudden loose threads. The story needs a “Cersei blows up the sept and half the character with it” moment just to make the books cohesive again.

I would have agreed with you on my first read through, at least in regards to Feast. I'm pretty sure that things introduced in Feast and Dance will be critically important in the books' endgame, though, especially if all the thoughts about certain future arcs being given to already existing characters hold true.

[liebzz]

Bought that book and never looked into it...should i?

I read most of it, and I think it somewhat sheds light by history alone the turn in Danaerys’s character on the show.

The history is interesting but it is not as engaging as the Song of Ice and Fire books. It is still pretty good and has held my attention throughout.

[Monkey_Driven]

I enjoyed Feast and Dragons a lot more during my re-read.

[Mecca]

Bought that book and never looked into it...should i?

I read most of it, and I think it somewhat sheds light by history alone the turn in Danaerys’s character on the show.

The history is interesting but it is not as engaging as the Song of Ice and Fire books. It is still pretty good and has held my attention throughout.

I didn’t feel it shed much light on her turn. Maegor was really the only insane Targaryen brought up in that book.

[Simple Torture]

I started F+B and will probably dip into it every once and a while, but I thought it read more like a Wikipedia entry than anything else. That's not necessarily bad, but it didn't hold my attention.

I've only ever re-read the first book and a half of the series, and really don't know if I'll return to them for a while. Will obviously read WoW right away, should have plenty of time to devote to it when I retire.

[liebzz]

Bought that book and never looked into it...should i?

I read most of it, and I think it somewhat sheds light by history alone the turn in Danaerys’s character on the show.

The history is interesting but it is not as engaging as the Song of Ice and Fire books. It is still pretty good and has held my attention throughout.

I didn’t feel it shed much light on her turn. Maegor was really the only insane Targaryen brought up in that book.

Maegor is the only one who could act on the insanity. The whole Dance of the Dragons is basically one insane faction against the other insane faction. And nearly ever Targaryen is unstable, be it ill tempered, brooding, or gluttonous. Only Jaehaerys seemed stable through the book and Aegon I.

[Mecca]

Bought that book and never looked into it...should i?

I read most of it, and I think it somewhat sheds light by history alone the turn in Danaerys’s character on the show.

The history is interesting but it is not as engaging as the Song of Ice and Fire books. It is still pretty good and has held my attention throughout.

I didn’t feel it shed much light on her turn. Maegor was really the only insane Targaryen brought up in that book.

Maegor is the only one who could act on the insanity. The whole Dance of the Dragons is basically one insane faction against the other insane faction. And nearly ever Targaryen is unstable, be it ill tempered, brooding, or gluttonous. Only Jaehaerys seemed stable through the book and Aegon I.

The Dance was a power struggle for a lot of reasons, none of them insanity

[Anders]

She was fairly crazy all along, not reall a major turn. The books will show it even better.

[Norah]

This is RM so we rank things: 3, 1, 2, 5, 4

I am reading Fire and Blood right now. Not nearly as engaging as the main books but an interesting history of the Targaryens nonetheless. I am most of the way through. Covers from the conquest to about 135 years later so far 94% in.

5 3 2 4 1. I could swap 2 and 4 though.