Sleater Kinney / Wild Flag / Quasi / related bands

[Birds in Hell]

Why did she wait so long to leave though? She had to start feeling this immediately upon recording.

Not really a S-K fan so I don't have much at stake here but I can understand this.

In the event that she immediately knew the new stuff wasn't her deal, I can understand feeling enough responsibility to her bandmates and their shared history not to bail during recording and derail the project.

Otherwise, decisions like this sometimes start with small doubts that steadily grow. I can see how she might've started having misgivings during the recording sessions and, by the time tour dates were booked and the prospect of rehearsals and whatnot was looming, she thought she simply couldn't do it anymore.

And yeah, changing a drummer can absolutely fundamentally alter a band. Aside from Pearl Jam, the Cure changed drummer in 1994 and I still don't enjoy hearing them with the "new" guy. I didn't enjoy Black Sabbath on their reunion tours that much because the drummer was too bombastic, etc.

[epilogue]

Bummer, but I totally get it.

And no, it’s not S-K with another drummer.

You know, maybe it has something to do with getting older -- or maybe it's being a long time PJ fan? -- but this argument is so boring to me anymore. It's lost all luster and conviction. And I totally used to be right there with you guys.

generally i'd agree with this, but to me this is an entirely different situation. first, there's just 3 of them, so losing a third of your band is pretty big. second, they've been this core for 20+ years. had this happened, say, 3 years into their tenure (ie. PJ example), then that's one thing. it's not like anyone cared when their former drummers left. but let's say Nirvana had been around for 20 years, and suddenly Dave Grohl left. that'd be a pretty big deal.

plus, she was such a creative talent behind so many of the band's songs

I would feel the same about your Nirvana example as I do about this, fwiw. *shrugs*

[Strat]

I think its actually quite amazing that pearl jam was so successful with three different drummers. can argue endlessly about all three of them, but it is quite impressive to change such an integral part of a bands sound and still manage to put out great music (LB and backfacer are not part of this debate)

[LoathedVermin72]

i just watched that Fallon performance. that was painful.

Don't late night performances typically sound pretty bad? Is this unusual?

How it sounded wasn’t the problem

[tragabigzanda]

[swan]

I have a lot of complicated thoughts & emotions about this. Some of my long-time Portland S-K heads are crushed & refuse to see the band without Janet. I get that, and it certainly will not be the same without her. At the same time I'm happy to see them evolve musically if that's what they want to do. I don't think I'd want them to try & rehash old riot grrl tropes as older, more stable people. And I respect them for not just doing cash grab nostalgia tours for the last 5 years, which they easily could have done (and I would have happily attended)

Carrie & Janet have always butted heads, and Janet is a no-bullshit person who clearly wasn't in to what they were doing. She also is not fond of touring anymore, based on what I've heard from people who know her. Respect her for making the choice that is right for her, while still being shocked by the timing of it. Had to be very hard to walk away from that band, not to mention the $

All in all, it sucks. I'm still holding judgment until I hear the album, and I'll still go see them in November. I've read so many ridiculous & shitty comments today about all this, including here. I guess it's kind of a testament to the power of their older music that so many people are offended & feel the need to attack Carrie. Not a good look, people. I've said this before in this here thread: I completely understand any S-K fan that hates this new musical direction. If that's you, just walk away. The old albums will always be there for you. I may end up joining you, who knows?

Mostly I'm just sad that we won't get to watch Carrie & Janet harmonize on Modern Girl ever again.

/rant

[Strat]

it doesnt seem like a true evolution of musical styling. Granted, we haven't heard the entire record but:



They just look like they are auditioning for her backing band:



And considering the songs we have heard...it really feels like St. Vincent is kind of running the show?

I fucking love St. Vincent but...its all so STRANGE and does not feel authentic.

[epilogue]

I have a lot of complicated thoughts & emotions about this. Some of my long-time Portland S-K heads are crushed & refuse to see the band without Janet. I get that, and it certainly will not be the same without her. At the same time I'm happy to see them evolve musically if that's what they want to do. I don't think I'd want them to try & rehash old riot grrl tropes as older, more stable people. And I respect them for not just doing cash grab nostalgia tours for the last 5 years, which they easily could have done (and I would have happily attended)

Carrie & Janet have always butted heads, and Janet is a no-bullshit person who clearly wasn't in to what they were doing. She also is not fond of touring anymore, based on what I've heard from people who know her. Respect her for making the choice that is right for her, while still being shocked by the timing of it. Had to be very hard to walk away from that band, not to mention the $

All in all, it sucks. I'm still holding judgment until I hear the album, and I'll still go see them in November. I've read so many ridiculous & shitty comments today about all this, including here. I guess it's kind of a testament to the power of their older music that so many people are offended & feel the need to attack Carrie. Not a good look, people. I've said this before in this here thread: I completely understand any S-K fan that hates this new musical direction. If that's you, just walk away. The old albums will always be there for you. I may end up joining you, who knows?

Mostly I'm just sad that we won't get to watch Carrie & Janet harmonize on Modern Girl ever again.

/rant

great post, well said

[epilogue]

its all so STRANGE and does not feel authentic.

how so

[tragabigzanda]

[E.H. Ruddock]

Has anything been said about the tour moving forward?

[Strat]

its all so STRANGE and does not feel authentic.

how so

Because as of now it looks and sounds exactly like St. Vincent. Its like when Mumford and Sons came out in leather jackets and sounded like coldplay.

[digster]

This is extremely surprising, and I agree with those who are asking how this possibly couldn't have come to a head sooner. I see what Birds In Hell's saying, but this was a record with a long gestational period. Usually the creative differences come up during the process, not afterwards after a tour is booked (and started doing press:https://www.thefader.com/2019/06/14/sle ... -interview). It feels like there's more than meets the eye. If the concern is aesthetic as opposed to with the music, I just don't feel like Janet would have bailed on the band for that reason.

As for what it means, I've seen enough bands move on and make great music after the loss of pivotal members to say that it's over, or it's not Sleater-Kinney anymore. But they are huge shoes to fill; losing Janet is losing Bill Berry, not Jack Irons. And doing it after the tour is booked, with them unlikely to get out of it? It's just a very bizarre turn of events, and it's probably the last band of my favorites I would have expected to have lineup troubles.

[epilogue]

its all so STRANGE and does not feel authentic.

how so

Because as of now it looks and sounds exactly like St. Vincent. Its like when Mumford and Sons came out in leather jackets and sounded like coldplay.

wat

did Coldplay produce that M&S album?

[digster]

The news today isn't going to help matters in this regard, but the St. Vincent-ness of the music is being pretty heavily overstated (and I was definitely noted some of the St. Vincent-esque sounds when I first heard these songs). There are aspects of it that show she produced it, but these two songs really seem to be dancier, more synth-heavy examples of the progression they were already making on parts of No Cities To Love. It's an easier, tidier story to say they're just trying to be St. Vincent and that made Janet bail, but I'm not sure it explains what's going on.

[swan]

Has anything been said about the tour moving forward?

They've just confirmed that the tour is still happening

[epilogue]

And I just come down to: Why? Why do something that makes your longtime friend -- a phenomenal and idiosyncratic drummer -- uncomfortable just so you can work with your new buddy? Why not allow for more of Janet's voice to be heard in the creative process? Or why not just do a full-on Annie Clark production and put the S-K moniker on hold for the album cycle?

I'm not terribly upset by this, just speculating because I'm killing time before I go get some ice cream.

Good questions but we literally don't know anything. We don't know that their phenomenal and idiosyncratic drummer expressed any discomfort (if there was any to express) or at what point she may have done so. We don't know that working with Annie was at the expense of anything. Maybe Janet's creative voice is all over the project (unlikely, I know, but still), we haven't heard the album yet.

I hear what you're saying. But I think the whole "why put the (fill in the blank, in this case S-K) moniker on" thing is what I've recently started to change my mind about. This is what I was thinking in my first post in this thread today. Two of the three band members are still in the band. And ALL THREE of them made this record. It's still S-K. And even without Janet, it's still S-K. We should allow them to try new things, make decisions, expand, etc, without holding them to this bizarre label standard. Like I said, I used to feel the same way, but lately it's just felt weird to me.

But I respect those that feel differently and those that are upset about this. I'm really sorry for those folks. I can imagine how much this must suck for them.

[epilogue]

The news today isn't going to help matters in this regard, but the St. Vincent-ness of the music is being pretty heavily overstated (and I was definitely noted some of the St. Vincent-esque sounds when I first heard these songs). There are aspects of it that show she produced it, but these two songs really seem to be dancier, more synth-heavy examples of the progression they were already making on parts of No Cities To Love. It's an easier, tidier story to say they're just trying to be St. Vincent and that made Janet bail, but I'm not sure it explains what's going on.

get out of here with this trash, dig!

[swan]

Janet: Really cold

Corin: Really kind

Carrie: Really liked attention

This has also been my experience. I've had the most interaction with Janet, and she's usually pretty frosty.

I told the story here before about when they shot some Portlandia at the space I was managing, and she stayed after to help me clean the place up. So she'll always be good people to me, but yeah best not to try & engage her in conversation..

[digster]

Of the two songs, the only moments where that influence becomes so notable it might hinder the music a bit is the choral parts and small vocal asides of Hurry On Home.