Once Upon a Time in... Hollywood

[tree_]

She didn't need more lines. She was a symbol of love, kindness, hope, innocence. We got all that from what's there.

[epilogue]

There are so many good ideas here but the movie amounts to nothing. QT has zero to say. I wanted to live this and really thought I would. It's just so frustrating how great this could have been.

[epilogue]

She didn't need more lines. She was a symbol of love, kindness, hope, innocence. We got all that from what's there.

I have no idea if you're responding to me or just making a statement. But I certainly never said she needed more lines. I agree that she didn't.

If anything the are too many lines in this movie.

[tree_]

I think you're missing the point of QT. He's not trying to make big statements. He's just about taking things in, letting moments breathe and having fun.

[tree_]

For example, he's not saying Bruce Lee was like that, he's saying "isn't this funny/fun?!"... the answer is "yes, it is. very much so." ..

[tragabigzanda]

Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

[epilogue]

For example, he's not saying Bruce Lee was like that, he's saying "isn't this funny/fun?!"... the answer is "yes, it is. very much so." ..

Oh, I see. So he's trying to be an incompetent artist. In that case, he's probably the most successful man in the history of cinema!

Spoiler: show

The answer is an emphatic "no" btw

[tragabigzanda]

Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

[epilogue]

QT’s never been one for “saying” things though. His films have been focused on referencing the movies he loves since the beginning (Jackie Brown being a notable exception, the only film driven entirely by character and plot).

I see Hollywood as a fairytale set in a bygone era. Everything at the Spahn ranch is the best example, with the murderous hippies having supplanted the former livelihood of the place.

So many great shots, awesome dialogue, sad moments, touching moments. I truly don’t understand what narrative throughline you think would have made this a better movie Joe, care to elaborate?

I think every section feels divorced from the whole in an uninteresting way. The first thing I would have done to fix the movie would be to make Rick a gay actor who (like Rock Hudson and so many other Old School Hollywood stars) is in the closet but also in a real relationship with his stunt man. That one change fixes 90% of the movie and makes so many of the scenes that come across as pretentious or simple and hollow ring with real stakes and tension. It would also really play into his fetishization of old Hollywood in a profound way.

[tragabigzanda]

Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

[tragabigzanda]

Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

[epilogue]

I don't understand why anyone is ascribing some sort of directorial judgment to the Bruce Lee scene. It was a very accurate portrayal of the public persona he put forth, and the narrative device of his clash with Cliff Booth served it's purpose in entertaining fashion.

It was a meaningless scene in the grand context of the film narrative. Also, he made Bruce a cartoon, not a character. It's flimsy and stupid and lowest-common-denominator storytelling that results in zero payoff. Therein making it a useless fantasy sequence with no substance or consequence. It's just one more example of QT's coked-out fever dream fantasizing. WOULDN'TITBECOOLTOBEATUPBRUCELEEYEAHTHATWOULDSOCOOLWHATMEBEATUPBRUCELEEISN'TTHATHILARIOUSMANWHATATIMETOBEALIVEMANILOVEBRUCEBUTHOWCOOLWOULDITHAVEBEENTOFIGHTHIMANDLIKEWHATIFYOUACTUALLYLANDEDAPUNCHINSANE! CANYOUIMAGE!!!!

It's utterly boring.

[epilogue]

QT’s never been one for “saying” things though. His films have been focused on referencing the movies he loves since the beginning (Jackie Brown being a notable exception, the only film driven entirely by character and plot).

I see Hollywood as a fairytale set in a bygone era. Everything at the Spahn ranch is the best example, with the murderous hippies having supplanted the former livelihood of the place.

So many great shots, awesome dialogue, sad moments, touching moments. I truly don’t understand what narrative throughline you think would have made this a better movie Joe, care to elaborate?

I think every section feels divorced from the whole in an uninteresting way. The first thing I would have done to fix the movie would be to make Rick a gay actor who (like Rock Hudson and so many other Old School Hollywood stars) is in the closet but also in a real relationship with his stunt man. That one change fixes 90% of the movie and makes so many of the scenes that come across as pretentious or simple and hollow ring with real stakes and tension. It would also really play into his fetishization of old Hollywood in a profound way.

Hey! While I found their friendship to be engaging enough in itself, I actually think this could have added a great depth to the movie! Thanks for sharing this.

You're welcome.

To be totally clear, I do feel like I'm being attacked in this thread. So I'm probably coming off more harshly and defensively than I would have had my reception in here been different. I didn't hate this movie. It has a lot of wonderful qualities. But it ultimately falls short, for me, and feels like a giant missed opportunity.

[epilogue]

But I do agree with a lot of what you're saying here, trag. The Fairytale aspect, especially. That was one of the saving graces of the film. But again it just felt like an afterthought. Imagine if that had been the point. Imagine if QT had put any basic level of thought and effort into that idea and weaved it through the fabric of the film in a way that didn't require the button of the title at the very end atop Rosemary's Baby music.

[tragabigzanda]

Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

[epilogue]

Now make the new Sleater-Kinney album sound good.

Have you listened to it yet? I'm waiting until I get home so I can spin the record.

[tragabigzanda]

Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

[tragabigzanda]

Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

[E.H. Ruddock]

Just switch to mobile version

[epilogue]

Well I obviously disagree about the Bruce Lee scene.
This wasn't a Bruce Lee movie, so any further fleshing out of his character would have been something else altogether.
And let's not forget that Cliff was both lucky to even get on the set, and was quickly shitcanned by the stunt coordinator once he put the film's star at risk. It both demonstrated that Cliff could actually fight, and it made me feel sort of bad for the low station in life he'd achieved. I loved this sequence and thought it worked like a charm.

Totally valid.

My argument would be, what does the scene add to the movie itself? I think, nothing. I think if you cut that sequence from the movie entirely it changes absolutely nothing about Cliff or the story.

At one point I tried to justify the scene by saying, "it's Cliff's memory, so the events are an exaggeration and not how they really happened." I like that idea and I think it goes a long way to justify the scene. The ultimate problem is that QT doesn't ever do that kind of thing again. So it becomes a one-off narrative device with no payoff. Which makes it a hollow sequence.

It's like having Kurt Russel narrate the last 20 minutes. There are stylistic choices in this that have zero uniformity and are all over the map. So, for me, it just feels like a dude with all the cache and cred in the world throwing pasta at the wall. Which sucks, because I think it was probably a really good dish!