Star Wars: Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[epilogue]

This is the new trilogy's largest problem. I believe we have discussed it previously, but it will only become more magnified with this new film.

Why did the New Republic fail?
How did they allow the New Order to become so powerful?

Questions like this are barely addressed in the films.

But again, you could ask those same questions of the Old Republic in the OT and I'm not sure the answers you get from the text of the films (ANH and ESB) are much better. Based on ANH and ESB alone (because we only have two ST films, so far)

Why did the Old Republic fail?
How did they allow the Empire to become so powerful?

Those questions are talked about in hushed tones and ideas and the OT. We had an entire PT to explain them.

If both trilogies existed in a vacuum you are (mostly) right. But, they don't. This trilogy comes after, includes characters from the original, and is largely influenced by the OT. The audience doesn't need an hour long, Marvel-esque, exposition dump, but it would be nice to know more earlier in the trilogy.

Yeah, that's why I made that point already in my response to wease. It's a little different. I'm aware. But it's really a non-issue and beside the larger point.

*For you

No. It is not the point we're discussing. The impact of it is a non-issue "FOR ME." But the actual point is quite literally beside the larger point we're talking about. If you want to focus on that, we can. I'm happy to. But it's irrelevant to the larger discussion.

[Monkey_Driven]

This is the new trilogy's largest problem. I believe we have discussed it previously, but it will only become more magnified with this new film.

Why did the New Republic fail?
How did they allow the New Order to become so powerful?

Questions like this are barely addressed in the films.

But again, you could ask those same questions of the Old Republic in the OT and I'm not sure the answers you get from the text of the films (ANH and ESB) are much better. Based on ANH and ESB alone (because we only have two ST films, so far)

Why did the Old Republic fail?
How did they allow the Empire to become so powerful?

Those questions are talked about in hushed tones and ideas and the OT. We had an entire PT to explain them.

If both trilogies existed in a vacuum you are (mostly) right. But, they don't. This trilogy comes after, includes characters from the original, and is largely influenced by the OT. The audience doesn't need an hour long, Marvel-esque, exposition dump, but it would be nice to know more earlier in the trilogy.

Yeah, that's why I made that point already in my response to wease. It's a little different. I'm aware. But it's really a non-issue and beside the larger point.

*For you

No. It is not the point we're discussing. The impact of it is a non-issue "FOR ME." But the actual point is a goal-post move and quite literally beside the larger point we're talking about. If you want to focus on that, we can. I'm happy to. But it's irrelevant to the larger discussion.

I think you are lumping my complaint about this specific thing into the larger discussion about force ghosts and zombie Palpatine.

[epilogue]

This is the new trilogy's largest problem. I believe we have discussed it previously, but it will only become more magnified with this new film.

Why did the New Republic fail?
How did they allow the New Order to become so powerful?

Questions like this are barely addressed in the films.

But again, you could ask those same questions of the Old Republic in the OT and I'm not sure the answers you get from the text of the films (ANH and ESB) are much better. Based on ANH and ESB alone (because we only have two ST films, so far)

Why did the Old Republic fail?
How did they allow the Empire to become so powerful?

Those questions are talked about in hushed tones and ideas and the OT. We had an entire PT to explain them.

If both trilogies existed in a vacuum you are (mostly) right. But, they don't. This trilogy comes after, includes characters from the original, and is largely influenced by the OT. The audience doesn't need an hour long, Marvel-esque, exposition dump, but it would be nice to know more earlier in the trilogy.

Yeah, that's why I made that point already in my response to wease. It's a little different. I'm aware. But it's really a non-issue and beside the larger point.

*For you

No. It is not the point we're discussing. The impact of it is a non-issue "FOR ME." But the actual point is a goal-post move and quite literally beside the larger point we're talking about. If you want to focus on that, we can. I'm happy to. But it's irrelevant to the larger discussion.

I think you are lumping my complaint about this specific thing into the larger discussion about force ghosts and zombie Palpatine.

wat

I don't think I am.

But it's clear that our streams are crossed to some degree.

I'm talking specifically about wease's (and others) complaint that the ST has relied too heavily on books/comic/etc to fill in the gaps in "bad" storytelling of the films.

[wease]

This is the new trilogy's largest problem. I believe we have discussed it previously, but it will only become more magnified with this new film.

Why did the New Republic fail?
How did they allow the New Order to become so powerful?

Questions like this are barely addressed in the films.

But again, you could ask those same questions of the Old Republic in the OT and I'm not sure the answers you get from the text of the films (ANH and ESB) are much better. Based on ANH and ESB alone (because we only have two ST films, so far)

Why did the Old Republic fail?
How did they allow the Empire to become so powerful?

Those questions are talked about in hushed tones and ideas and the OT. We had an entire PT to explain them.

But we weren’t given anything BEFORE the original movies as a jumping point to the first movie. In ROTJ, we’re given a definite conclusion to the Empire. Then, without explanation, it’s back. With the first movie we’re already in the times of the Empire and we know there was something before it but we’ve not seen anything at that point that contradicts anything we’ve seen before. The way it’s presented on TFA would be like if the original movie was released after a Episode III that stated the Old Republic won the Clone Wars and all the Jedi were still bebopping around the galaxy.

[epilogue]

This is the new trilogy's largest problem. I believe we have discussed it previously, but it will only become more magnified with this new film.

Why did the New Republic fail?
How did they allow the New Order to become so powerful?

Questions like this are barely addressed in the films.

But again, you could ask those same questions of the Old Republic in the OT and I'm not sure the answers you get from the text of the films (ANH and ESB) are much better. Based on ANH and ESB alone (because we only have two ST films, so far)

Why did the Old Republic fail?
How did they allow the Empire to become so powerful?

Those questions are talked about in hushed tones and ideas and the OT. We had an entire PT to explain them.

But we weren’t given anything BEFORE the original movies as a jumping point to the first movie. In ROTJ, we’re given a definite conclusion to the Empire. Then, without explanation, it’s back. With the first movie we’re already in the times of the Empire and we know there was something before it but we’ve not seen anything at that point that contradicts anything we’ve seen before. The way it’s presented on TFA would be like if the original movie was released after a Episode III that stated the Old Republic won the Clone Wars and all the Jedi were still bebopping around the galaxy.

oh boy...

Bammer's right. I use too many words.

[dimejinky99]

picture it.
Palpatine kicking Rey and Kylos ass.
Huge big force rumble in the speakers. Camera cuts to Anakin skywalker force ghost standing there. Rey and Kylo shocked! Palpatine starts begging Anakin to help him.
Anakin goes ‘you two should leave now’. They leave. And obi wan yoda Luke qui gon mace windu force ghosts all appear and do what they should have fucking done long ago and they all take on Palpatine and break his spirit and vanquish him forever.

It’s so sad our head canon is often better than what we end up with.

[Monkey_Driven]

picture it.
Palpatine kicking Rey and Kylos ass.
Huge big force rumble in the speakers. Camera cuts to Anakin skywalker force ghost standing there. Rey and Kylo shocked! Palpatine starts begging Anakin to help him.
Anakin goes ‘you two should leave now’. They leave. And obi wan yoda Luke qui gon mace windu force ghosts all appear and do what they should have fucking done long ago and they all take on Palpatine and break his spirit and vanquish him forever.

It’s so sad our head canon is often better than what we end up with.

That sounds awful.

[epilogue]

I already addressed that (or rather dismissed it) in my other comment to you, wease. But there's no use in belaboring this point. We just see it differently. I don't think it's bad storytelling. You obviously do. And the world goes round. I still love you either way.

[dimejinky99]

picture it.
Palpatine kicking Rey and Kylos ass.
Huge big force rumble in the speakers. Camera cuts to Anakin skywalker force ghost standing there. Rey and Kylo shocked! Palpatine starts begging Anakin to help him.
Anakin goes ‘you two should leave now’. They leave. And obi wan yoda Luke qui gon mace windu force ghosts all appear and do what they should have fucking done long ago and they all take on Palpatine and break his spirit and vanquish him forever.

It’s so sad our head canon is often better than what we end up with.

That sounds awful.

And that’s why it’s gonna happen

Here for it. All of it.

[Monkey_Driven]

This is the new trilogy's largest problem. I believe we have discussed it previously, but it will only become more magnified with this new film.

Why did the New Republic fail?
How did they allow the New Order to become so powerful?

Questions like this are barely addressed in the films.

But again, you could ask those same questions of the Old Republic in the OT and I'm not sure the answers you get from the text of the films (ANH and ESB) are much better. Based on ANH and ESB alone (because we only have two ST films, so far)

Why did the Old Republic fail?
How did they allow the Empire to become so powerful?

Those questions are talked about in hushed tones and ideas and the OT. We had an entire PT to explain them.

If both trilogies existed in a vacuum you are (mostly) right. But, they don't. This trilogy comes after, includes characters from the original, and is largely influenced by the OT. The audience doesn't need an hour long, Marvel-esque, exposition dump, but it would be nice to know more earlier in the trilogy.

Yeah, that's why I made that point already in my response to wease. It's a little different. I'm aware. But it's really a non-issue and beside the larger point.

*For you

No. It is not the point we're discussing. The impact of it is a non-issue "FOR ME." But the actual point is a goal-post move and quite literally beside the larger point we're talking about. If you want to focus on that, we can. I'm happy to. But it's irrelevant to the larger discussion.

I think you are lumping my complaint about this specific thing into the larger discussion about force ghosts and zombie Palpatine.

wat

I don't think I am.

But it's clear that our streams are crossed to some degree.

I'm talking specifically about wease's (and others) complaint that the ST has relied too heavily on books/comic/etc to fill in the gaps in "bad" storytelling of the films.

It would be bad storytelling if Episode IX's main antagonist (or plot device) was something or someone from the OT that has not been directly, or indirectly, referenced in the first two films in this trilogy.

[epilogue]

This is the new trilogy's largest problem. I believe we have discussed it previously, but it will only become more magnified with this new film.

Why did the New Republic fail?
How did they allow the New Order to become so powerful?

Questions like this are barely addressed in the films.

But again, you could ask those same questions of the Old Republic in the OT and I'm not sure the answers you get from the text of the films (ANH and ESB) are much better. Based on ANH and ESB alone (because we only have two ST films, so far)

Why did the Old Republic fail?
How did they allow the Empire to become so powerful?

Those questions are talked about in hushed tones and ideas and the OT. We had an entire PT to explain them.

If both trilogies existed in a vacuum you are (mostly) right. But, they don't. This trilogy comes after, includes characters from the original, and is largely influenced by the OT. The audience doesn't need an hour long, Marvel-esque, exposition dump, but it would be nice to know more earlier in the trilogy.

Yeah, that's why I made that point already in my response to wease. It's a little different. I'm aware. But it's really a non-issue and beside the larger point.

*For you

No. It is not the point we're discussing. The impact of it is a non-issue "FOR ME." But the actual point is a goal-post move and quite literally beside the larger point we're talking about. If you want to focus on that, we can. I'm happy to. But it's irrelevant to the larger discussion.

I think you are lumping my complaint about this specific thing into the larger discussion about force ghosts and zombie Palpatine.

wat

I don't think I am.

But it's clear that our streams are crossed to some degree.

I'm talking specifically about wease's (and others) complaint that the ST has relied too heavily on books/comic/etc to fill in the gaps in "bad" storytelling of the films.

It would be bad storytelling if Episode IX's main antagonist (or plot device) was something or someone from the OT that has not been directly, or indirectly, referenced in the first two films in this trilogy.

The odds get higher sure. But it's not a guarantee. It's all about execution.

[Monkey_Driven]

This is the new trilogy's largest problem. I believe we have discussed it previously, but it will only become more magnified with this new film.

Why did the New Republic fail?
How did they allow the New Order to become so powerful?

Questions like this are barely addressed in the films.

But again, you could ask those same questions of the Old Republic in the OT and I'm not sure the answers you get from the text of the films (ANH and ESB) are much better. Based on ANH and ESB alone (because we only have two ST films, so far)

Why did the Old Republic fail?
How did they allow the Empire to become so powerful?

Those questions are talked about in hushed tones and ideas and the OT. We had an entire PT to explain them.

If both trilogies existed in a vacuum you are (mostly) right. But, they don't. This trilogy comes after, includes characters from the original, and is largely influenced by the OT. The audience doesn't need an hour long, Marvel-esque, exposition dump, but it would be nice to know more earlier in the trilogy.

Yeah, that's why I made that point already in my response to wease. It's a little different. I'm aware. But it's really a non-issue and beside the larger point.

*For you

No. It is not the point we're discussing. The impact of it is a non-issue "FOR ME." But the actual point is a goal-post move and quite literally beside the larger point we're talking about. If you want to focus on that, we can. I'm happy to. But it's irrelevant to the larger discussion.

I think you are lumping my complaint about this specific thing into the larger discussion about force ghosts and zombie Palpatine.

wat

I don't think I am.

But it's clear that our streams are crossed to some degree.

I'm talking specifically about wease's (and others) complaint that the ST has relied too heavily on books/comic/etc to fill in the gaps in "bad" storytelling of the films.

It would be bad storytelling if Episode IX's main antagonist (or plot device) was something or someone from the OT that has not been directly, or indirectly, referenced in the first two films in this trilogy.

The odds get higher sure. But it's not a guarantee. It's all about execution.

True. I'm just skeptical given the triology's production history.

[epilogue]

This is the new trilogy's largest problem. I believe we have discussed it previously, but it will only become more magnified with this new film.

Why did the New Republic fail?
How did they allow the New Order to become so powerful?

Questions like this are barely addressed in the films.

But again, you could ask those same questions of the Old Republic in the OT and I'm not sure the answers you get from the text of the films (ANH and ESB) are much better. Based on ANH and ESB alone (because we only have two ST films, so far)

Why did the Old Republic fail?
How did they allow the Empire to become so powerful?

Those questions are talked about in hushed tones and ideas and the OT. We had an entire PT to explain them.

If both trilogies existed in a vacuum you are (mostly) right. But, they don't. This trilogy comes after, includes characters from the original, and is largely influenced by the OT. The audience doesn't need an hour long, Marvel-esque, exposition dump, but it would be nice to know more earlier in the trilogy.

Yeah, that's why I made that point already in my response to wease. It's a little different. I'm aware. But it's really a non-issue and beside the larger point.

*For you

No. It is not the point we're discussing. The impact of it is a non-issue "FOR ME." But the actual point is a goal-post move and quite literally beside the larger point we're talking about. If you want to focus on that, we can. I'm happy to. But it's irrelevant to the larger discussion.

I think you are lumping my complaint about this specific thing into the larger discussion about force ghosts and zombie Palpatine.

wat

I don't think I am.

But it's clear that our streams are crossed to some degree.

I'm talking specifically about wease's (and others) complaint that the ST has relied too heavily on books/comic/etc to fill in the gaps in "bad" storytelling of the films.

It would be bad storytelling if Episode IX's main antagonist (or plot device) was something or someone from the OT that has not been directly, or indirectly, referenced in the first two films in this trilogy.

The odds get higher sure. But it's not a guarantee. It's all about execution.

True. I'm just skeptical given the triology's production history.

And I feel exactly the opposite for the same reasons.

[dimejinky99]

For anyone coming at me about me waffling about Star Wars can you just refer to the last few pages and take names of those involved please?
That be great thanks

[epilogue]

It's just some friendly back and forth. We all have different thoughts/feelings and investments in all of this. I see things differently than wease and MD but that doesn't mean their takes are invalid.

I like hashing this stuff out. And I'd love to continue to do so and maybe help these guys see things my way because I think it would give them some comfort and a more positive outlook about all of this stuff. But I don't think that's what they want. The certainly didn't ask for my "help." So who the fuck am I?

Pretty arrogant to assume anyone wants to feel differently than they do or that my way is somehow better or more valid. That's bullshit and not at all what I'm trying to do.

All I know is that I'm excited for this movie and I like speculating now that we're close enough to release and have seen actual footage to speculate about. I don't like speculation for websites that are telling me things we haven't seen.

[wease]

picture it.
Palpatine kicking Rey and Kylos ass.
Huge big force rumble in the speakers. Camera cuts to Anakin skywalker force ghost standing there. Rey and Kylo shocked! Palpatine starts begging Anakin to help him.
Anakin goes ‘you two should leave now’. They leave. And obi wan yoda Luke qui gon mace windu force ghosts all appear and do what they should have fucking done long ago and they all take on Palpatine and break his spirit and vanquish him forever.

It’s so sad our head canon is often better than what we end up with.

And Wease never watches, reads, listens to or talks about anything Star Wars ever again.

[wease]

I already addressed that (or rather dismissed it) in my other comment to you, wease. But there's no use in belaboring this point. We just see it differently. I don't think it's bad storytelling. You obviously do. And the world goes round. I still love you either way.

Ditto

[Strat]

picture it.
Palpatine kicking Rey and Kylos ass.
Huge big force rumble in the speakers. Camera cuts to Anakin skywalker force ghost standing there. Rey and Kylo shocked! Palpatine starts begging Anakin to help him.
Anakin goes ‘you two should leave now’. They leave. And obi wan yoda Luke qui gon mace windu force ghosts all appear and do what they should have fucking done long ago and they all take on Palpatine and break his spirit and vanquish him forever.

It’s so sad our head canon is often better than what we end up with.

That sounds awful.

And that’s why it’s gonna happen

Here for it. All of it.

yea this sounds so awful and completely negates all of the character building of the new trilogy.

"Hey here are these new characters, but we actually dont need them, hey mace and yoda kill palpatine!"

[Strat]

As i stated previously, iw as over speculating but today is a fucking blast doing such the thing!

[epilogue]

I'm all about seeing an Anakin Force Ghost. I'm all about him interacting with Rey and/or ESPECIALLY Kylo. I'm all about Luke, Yoda and Obi-Wan Force Ghosts.

I'm lukewarm on the idea of any of them fighting.

I hate the idea of a Mace Windu Force Ghost.

But again all in the delivery.