Vacating convictions

[Bi_3]

The recent flood of pot legalization (a good thing) has been accompanied in some states with vacating or reducing convictions for various pot related offenses, but I struggle with this. Os vacating convictions something we should consider as laws and social opinions change? Simple possession of marijuana is maybe the least problematic case for doing this, and I fully recognize the unfairness of convictions of this nature when people are caught up in three strike laws, but it was a crime. A crime for which a person was convicted through commonly agreed to legal proceedings. This seems like a very dangerous precedent

[tragabigzanda]

FUCK ICE

[Mickey]

Yeah this doesn't need a thread at all. Pot convictions--using and selling--should be unilaterally vacated. I'd be okay with setting a bar on selling, so as not to include cartel guys, but low level weed dealers should absolutely not be in jail for doing a crime that's now Colorado's primary tourism driver.

[BurtReynolds]

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[Bi_3]

Your thinking on this is completely backwards:

1. Absent of some sort of breathalyzer analog, legalization is completely idiotic, and something the libs will have to own once traffic fatalities start going up. Decriminalization + state medical programs are a fine medium until impairment technology exists.

2. Of course all those convictions should be vacated. It’s only pot! A non-violent drug that doesn’t plague communities the way harder drugs do, and those convicted are disproportionately black.

Try to think about it outside of pot, I was just using that example to prove this a real thing happening today. For example, if we raise the speed limit on a road from 55 to 65, should we refund or remove speeding fines for people who were doing 56-65 before the change? Or does it matter that they broke what was the law at the time they were convicted?

[Mickey]

I don't think that's an appropriate parallel--changing a speed limit is not the same thing as making a felony drug charge into a legal recreational activity taxed and regulated by the state.

[Mickey]

If, say, it was determined that drunk driving is now legal, I would be fine vacating drunk driving convictions.

[Mickey]

But of course that would be absurd. While it makes me uncomfortable to say this, I agree with Burt--I don't think there's a lot of applicable cases where vacating pot convictions would set a precedent.

[tragabigzanda]

FUCK ICE

[Mickey]

But of course that would be absurd. While it makes me uncomfortable to say this, I agree with Burt--I don't think there's a lot of applicable cases where vacating pot convictions would set a precedent.

Prostitution perhaps?

Sure. Abortion convictions pre-legalization is another one that comes to mind. Basically I just don't think the rarified category of "illegal" or "crime" should stand for much.

[Mickey]

But I also think if you wanted to single out pot for being a particularly egregious case, given the racialized history of the drug war, given the state's ability to collect money off of post-legalization sales, given the relatively low level of harm incurred by using pot, I would see that logic.

[Bi_3]

But of course that would be absurd. While it makes me uncomfortable to say this, I agree with Burt--I don't think there's a lot of applicable cases where vacating pot convictions would set a precedent.

Prostitution perhaps?

Forgot the pot example, clearly that’s a trigger. Maybe prostitution is a better example like trag said.


Should we vacate past convictions for illegal actions that become legal? I think no, but open to hearing the counterpoint

Edit: this obviously assumes the law was constitutional at the time of the conviction

[McParadigm]

Absent of some sort of breathalyzer analog, legalization is completely idiotic, and something the libs will have to own once traffic fatalities start going up.

Any minute now...

[tragabigzanda]

FUCK ICE

[Bi_3]

Bi_3, I’m skeptical there’s a productive conversation to be had around a blanket position. Vacating convictions is something that’s better explored on a type-of-crime basis

I understand this perspective, but that you would consider it means you except the premise right? I’m not sure I do. Maybe selling automatic weapons is a good example. Should someone convicted of illegally selling a full-auto AR15 have the conviction vacated if those weapons are years later legalized for sale?

[Mickey]

If you're not sure that you accept the premise of vacating convictions whatsoever, bringing up different examples isn't really going to explore anything. Whether or not I think we should vacate gun sale convictions in a bizarro world where full automatics become legal has no bearing on whether or not I believe in vacating convictions in theory.

[Bi_3]

If you're not sure that you accept the premise of vacating convictions whatsoever, bringing up different examples isn't really going to explore anything. Whether or not I think we should vacate gun sale convictions in a bizarro world where full automatics become legal has no bearing on whether or not I believe in vacating convictions in theory.

Trag wanted examples, they aren’t easy to think of that don’t bring case specific biases in

[Mickey]

If you're not sure that you accept the premise of vacating convictions whatsoever, bringing up different examples isn't really going to explore anything. Whether or not I think we should vacate gun sale convictions in a bizarro world where full automatics become legal has no bearing on whether or not I believe in vacating convictions in theory.

Trag wanted examples, they aren’t easy to think of that don’t bring case specific biases in

Sure but am I missing something, or are you advancing the claim that the example doesn't matter because you don't think convictions of a crime should ever be vacated en masse?

[Bi_3]

If you're not sure that you accept the premise of vacating convictions whatsoever, bringing up different examples isn't really going to explore anything. Whether or not I think we should vacate gun sale convictions in a bizarro world where full automatics become legal has no bearing on whether or not I believe in vacating convictions in theory.

Trag wanted examples, they aren’t easy to think of that don’t bring case specific biases in

Sure but am I missing something, or are you advancing the claim that the example doesn't matter because you don't think convictions of a crime should ever be vacated en masse?

Yes, for laws and legal proceedings that pass constitutional muster.

[Mickey]

If you're not sure that you accept the premise of vacating convictions whatsoever, bringing up different examples isn't really going to explore anything. Whether or not I think we should vacate gun sale convictions in a bizarro world where full automatics become legal has no bearing on whether or not I believe in vacating convictions in theory.

Trag wanted examples, they aren’t easy to think of that don’t bring case specific biases in

Sure but am I missing something, or are you advancing the claim that the example doesn't matter because you don't think convictions of a crime should ever be vacated en masse?

Yes, for laws and legal proceedings that pass constitutional muster.

Okay--so what would be the argument for your position? You've given a number of example that supposedly wouldn't work, but not vacating gun crime convictions doesn't necessarily mean we shouldn't vacate drug possession convictions.