Election 2020

[Mickey]

Love to roll out the ole "black people aren't open-minded" trope, great work.

[Mickey]

Whether Pete was an out gay man or not during Bush's presidency is a pretty bigoted and ignorant metric for dishonesty, but it's also unnecessary: Pete is clearly dishonest because he worked at fucking McKinsey.

[Bi_3]

Love to roll out the ole "black people aren't open-minded" trope, great work.

I dunno know dude. There might be something there.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/05/ ... rs-1322396
https://abcnews4.com/news/lowcountry-an ... ack-voters
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/wjv9 ... homophobia

[96583UP]

Of those 3 articles, two seem to be based on views in the South, and one based on views of Old People

Within those two groups (Southern, Old), are blacks' views on homosexuality significantly different compared to those of non-black people?

[Bi_3]

Of those 3 articles, two seem to be based on views in the South, and one based on views of Old People

Within those two groups (Southern, Old), are blacks' views on homosexuality significantly different compared to those of non-black people?

Like the links, This was in reply to the South Carolina lie (exaggeration?) he told. I can keep streaming links that this is a concern for his campaign or you can try reading to understand context of my posts.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytime ... a.amp.html


I am not claiming any special knowledge of any voting groups opinions, only what comes up In The news

[Mickey]

Love to roll out the ole "black people aren't open-minded" trope, great work.

I dunno know dude. There might be something there.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/05/ ... rs-1322396
https://abcnews4.com/news/lowcountry-an ... ack-voters
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/wjv9 ... homophobia

This is, quite literally, evidence of the media rolling out that trope, so I appreciate your help on that front. But it is instructive: for example, the Politico story leads with his sexuality but then tosses a few paragraphs in near the end about how his *atrocious* record with racially-biased police shootings and *literally having said* "all lives matter" might also be affecting his lack of support with black voters (I'm as shocked as anyone!). Unfortunately, scapegoating the black community as specifically intolerant of homosexuality is relatively common, but the data for that narrative isn't exactly clear. Yes, black support for gay marriage has hovered around 51% compared to white support at 62% or so. But there's a lot of variables that aren't controlled for when things are only broken down by race: gay marriage is less popular among the working class than the very rich, it's less popular in rural than in urban areas, it's less popular with those who haven't been to college than with those who hold a BA or higher, it's less popular with church-going communities than with non-religious voters, etc. (this is a good aggregate of recent polling data). So to look at the Pete Buttigieg campaign and say that black people won't support him because hes a homo when you're not equally saying that religious people won't support him or that rural voters won't support him is perpetuating this idea that black people are specifically, intrinsically intolerant (or that there's some monolithic concept of blackness that operates equally), and it allows him to whitewash a lot of the reasons that black voters might loathe him even more than I do. We are, of course, talking about a man who said just last year that felons shouldn't have their voting rights restored (33% of black men are felons, which we know beyond a shadow of a doubt is not evidence of increased criminal behavior), a man who tried to con black SC politicians into supporting his education plan, a man who refuses to support M4A in a country where black mothers' mortality rates are rising--we could go on, but I would certainly hope that you've gotten the picture by now, right?

[Mickey]

I think you're misunderstanding something relatively fundamental here: the SC "lie" that I have in mind is when the Pete campaign emailed a bunch of black South Carolinians about his education plan and said that if you do NOT reply to this email within like two weeks or so, we'll take it as a show of your support for and endorsement of my plan--already a shady and dishonest tactic to begin with, since some of these people were state-level senators and prominent community leaders who might literally just not have seen the email. But then they went a pass further and put out press materials claiming that these people support Pete for president because of his plan, which was not even what was articulated in his email and which directly contradicts previous endorsements some of these people have made (many of them for Bernie lol). In my book, that's not an exaggeration, that's a conscious and willful lie, and he was rightly called on it.

https://theintercept.com/2019/11/15/pet ... ck-voters/

[Mickey]

Though if black people refused to vote for Pete and torpedoed his campaign that would fucking rule, he is a glassy-eyed little psychopath and should be trebuchet'd into the sea.

[96583UP]

I think the whole Fox News narrative that all Kamala ran on was "I'm a lady, Trump is bad" is a pretty sexist and ignorant metric of her value proposition as a candidate, but it's also unnecessary: Kamala is clearly worthless as a candidate because she worked at fucking Willie Brown.

Spoiler: show

remember to read the disclaimer

[Bi_3]

I can’t force you examine the possibility you are mistaken, or how many direct quotes from LGBTQ activists it might take, but here’s another link that covers a lot of what you suggested:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/wh ... ck-voters/

Systemic racism has created a large pool of non-college educated, low income, religious black voters in the south and this is not favorable for gay candidates at this point in our history. Here’s a graphic on support of gay marriage nationwide. Obviously it’s lower in the south.

[96583UP]

that answers my question. Thank you

thank you for doing the research

but please: if Pete Townshend asks you to do some research, DON'T DO IT

[Bi_3]

None of that takes away from the deception of support for his education plan that I described. I wasn’t gonna vote for him (still Bloomberg or Warren), that just cements it.

[96583UP]

Everyone needs to stop voting for Warren and vote for Bernie.

Warren is Scott Stapp

Bernie is (pre-PRAMG) Ed

[Mickey]

I can’t force you examine the possibility you are mistaken, or how many direct quotes from LGBTQ activists it might take, but here’s another link that covers a lot of what you suggested:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/wh ... ck-voters/

Systemic racism has created a large pool of non-college educated, low income, religious black voters in the south and this is not favorable for gay candidates at this point in our history. Here’s a graphic on support of gay marriage nationwide. Obviously it’s lower in the south.

So, I'm not sure why you'd bring up LGBTQ activists and their direct quotes--that implies that they're more capable of resisting racist or patriarchal cultural narratives, when the legacy of homo-normativity tells us that that's absolutely false. You can Google accounts of anti-blackness in the gay community, there are literally thousands (and anyway the link I posted previously about the trend of scapegoating the black population was from Out Magazine, so...)

In any case--and I'm not really trying to talk down to you here but--I think you're missing my point, and I think we basically agree (though I am reading something more insidious in the links you posted). I would not dispute the fact that black Americans as an aggregate report less support for gay marriage than white Americans. What I am disputing is the idea that this is tied to their blackness rather than to other complicating variables (education, poverty, region, etc.). In other words, this narrative looks at the data which correlates lower support for gay marriage among blacks and reads causation into it--black people are homophobic, in some intrinsic or socially determined way--rather than centering those other factors that you yourself point out. You don't have to take it from me either--the article you linked makes a similar point:

I think the evidence is fairly clear that black Democrats as a group are not as supportive of gay relationships or gay marriage as white Democrats. So, it is plausible that Buttigieg, as an openly gay candidate, starts at a disadvantage among black voters.

So why do I list this a potential reason, as opposed to a clear problem? Well, because I’m not sure that black political behavior is particularly influenced by black views on gay rights. In 2012, there was speculation that Obama would lose sizable support among black voters once he started supporting gay marriage. Not only did that not happen, but African Americans have also remained as supportive of the Democratic Party as ever over the last decade, even as the party has increasingly allied itself with LGBTQ rights.[...] So I think we should be cautious about naming homophobia as a principal factor when assessing why a 37-year-old, white small-town mayor might lose the black Democratic primary vote to Barack Obama’s vice president in a primary where black voters are desperate to find a candidate who they think will defeat Donald Trump.

Does this change the on-the-ground reality for Pete and his chance of success in certain states? Absolutely not--I'd go further than the author of the article and agree with you that his sexuality unfortunately is a burden to his electability--if not in the primary then certainly in the general. But to single this out as a black problem rather than, again, a lower class problem, a rural problem, a Christian problem (all of which would be similarly reductive, of course--no one identity category is the problem here) perpetuates what is essentially a racist stereotype, expressed as "black people can't get on board with the gays." And it's especially pernicious insofar as a candidate who, as I detailed above, has a checkered history of demonstrating understanding of black issues is employing it as a way to absolve himself of that history.

[Bi_3]

Mickey, in no way did I intend to imply it was a function of race, but a combination of many intersections that are not exclusive to any particular group, and I apologize if anyone took the comments that way.

[McParadigm]

What a perfect time in this conversation for all those Mayor Pete “You can tell if I fixed a pothole, it’s not like proving I wasn’t born in Kenya,” videos to surface.

[Bi_3]

Worse than Hitler

[McParadigm]

What a weird post

[pepperwhiteMFC]

I mean wtf

Yeah it does seem weird if you only watch 1 minute of a 15 minute speech.

the other 14 minutes make it seem less weird?

I’m not going say it’s not weird that black kids thought his blonde leg hairs were entertaining.

The least weird part of this clip is the scene Biden is ostensibly describing.

Dementia happens to the best of us.

[Mickey]

What a perfect time in this conversation for all those Mayor Pete “You can tell if I fixed a pothole, it’s not like proving I wasn’t born in Kenya,” videos to surface.

Is this a real thing? In any case it reminds me that Pete's campaign also used a stock photo of a Kenyan woman in its PR materials for that same improving black education plan.