Election 2020

[PHATJ]

You guys really just can’t handle a single person not being a liberal, can you?

I think it comes down to Trump being such a polarizing figure. I voted conservative until about 2004. I served in combat in 3 theaters and grew up in a conservative family. But at some point some things happened and I had an open mind and became more center-left I guess? But I don't remember there being such strong opinionated sides for Bush, Clinton, or Bush? Maybe I just didn't pay enough attention.

This I can appreciate. And I absolutely appreciate your service, Ruddo. I know you did active duty, and I can’t even imagine that. So sincerely, thank you. The craziness (in my opinion) started with GWBush, when media outlets and celebrities - people with a platform to be heard - started ruthlessly bashing Bush, calling him an idiot and mocking him ruthlessly. It became much worse when Obama become president and the same people - people with the platform to be heard - fawned over his every breath while ignoring the growing divide in the country. They mocked the center of the country as somehow dumber and less important than the liberal coastal metropolises. They sided with criminals over law enforcement. They prioritized illegal immigrants over citizens. They sympathized with Muslim terrorists. And the right got mad and energized. Then came Trump. And everyone went berserk. The right felt empowered because they finally had a brazen leader that stood up to the media and to the lying-ass career politicians we have grown to distrust and loathe. The left freaked out because this man isn’t a pushover and he offends them by calling out their endless bullshit. Of course he is flawed. He says crazy things sometimes. But he knows how to push their buttons and he revels in pointing out their endless hypocrisy. No Republican has ever been so brazen. And no Republican has ever had such overwhelming opposition. Neither side trusts the other AT ALL. News sources have been proven to be unreliable at best and simply propaganda at worst. And with the internet, we all get to spend our days fucking screaming at each other about it. 30 years ago we had to talk to people, either in person or on the phone. But we all understood it was a person that we were having discussions with. And there was respect for differences of opinion. Today, we are all faceless nobody’s behind screens, and links, and unverifiable stats, polls, blah blah blah. And it has become increasingly normal for people of all ages to be involved with social media. The world is ripe for chaos. And that’s what we’ve got.

[PHATJ]

Yeah, Josh, buddy, I really don't want to pile on but this reads like so much projection.

You guys really just can’t handle a single person not being a liberal, can you?

Honestly, it seems like the opposite is true. You talk a lot about how much you love pwning the libs. You've said one of your favorite things about Trump is the way he pwns the libs.

Are you sure it's not that you just can't handle a single person being a liberal?

My girlfriend is a life long Democrat and is a highly successful campaign manager that has won statewide elections as large as governor races. I love her more than anything in the world. I’m pretty sure I can handle being around liberals.

[epilogue]

Yeah, Josh, buddy, I really don't want to pile on but this reads like so much projection.

You guys really just can’t handle a single person not being a liberal, can you?

Honestly, it seems like the opposite is true. You talk a lot about how much you love pwning the libs. You've said one of your favorite things about Trump is the way he pwns the libs.

Are you sure it's not that you just can't handle a single person being a liberal?

My girlfriend is a life long Democrat and is a highly successful campaign manager that has won statewide elections as large as governor races. I love her more than anything in the world. I’m pretty sure I can handle being around liberals.

It's interesting to me then that putting one over on them is so important to you. I would think having intellectually honest discussions and trying to listen to the other would be even more valuable for you.

[Superblood Wolfmoon]

Maybe what needs to change is this idiotic notion that politics is about “pwning” the other side. It’s a very scary legacy for GenX that I see being created in real-time. We’re already out-of-touch boomers in the eyes of younger folks. Everyone needs a good dose of grow-the-fuck-up. I’m pretty much back to near-complete apathy due to the rampant idiocy that’s plaguing every aspect of society, not the least of which is politics.

[epilogue]

Maybe what needs to change is this idiotic notion that politics is about “pwning” the other side

I agree. Though I do think it's disingenuous to say that it's equal on both sides. One side clearly cares more about this than the other (generally speaking). But that's not really the point. The point is, yes, it's stupid and it really needs to fucking stop.

[liebzz]

I think most all of that is exaggerated and not the starting point of the current ideological divide. It is more accurately the 1994 midterm elections that played a large part in the current climate. The Contract With America brought in a strong conservative congress lead by Gingrich, who would do nearly anything to bring down the Clintons.

Further down the line, once Obama was elected President, conservatives like McConnell states from day one that they were more interested in Obama’s failure than the country’s success, inflaming Tea Partiers in 2010 who wanted more than anything Obama’s failure and to hurt their opposition more than govern for any level of reasoned success. Why allow facts to get in the way of a good conspiracy theory that stokes racial divides? Demanding that Obama be removed from office because you are personally doubtful that the long form birth certificate is authentic because how could a black guy with a foreign sounding name possibly be allowed to be president is somehow more legitimate basis, along with the tan suit fiasco, than a president quite likely pressuring a foreign government to provide window dressing for a presidential campaign in exchange for a presidential meeting at best, and hundreds of millions of dollars in military aid at worst.

Looking at the last 30 years or so, it has been, from my perspective, the following pattern: Democrats introduce a measure or idea, Republicans and lobbyists attack it relentlessly until Democrats cave without concession and life goes on as always. The one exception is the Affordable Care Act, where it got jammed in (with a tremendous amount of concessions!), and to this day Republicans dream of dismantling it even when it helps people because they perceive that as hurting the feelings of Democrats.

I mean, you could keep going back in time to say Reagan or Kennedy to trace the origin of hyper-partisanship, but I think it’s worked for Republicans since Gingrich to go for blood to support the tribe. Why compromise when you know your opponent will eventually cave. Why focus on facts when blatantly lying makes your opponent so mad (which is what is satisfying in the end, isn’t it?).

[Captain Termite]

The left freaked out because this man isn’t a pushover and he offends them by calling out their endless bullshit.

Those are not the reasons.

[epilogue]

The left freaked out because this man isn’t a pushover and he offends them by calling out their endless bullshit.

Those are not the reasons.

[4/5]

The left freaked out because this man isn’t a pushover and he offends them by calling out their endless bullshit.

Those are not the reasons.

I disagree with it too, but I think his post was a pretty good description of how people on the right are experiencing politics these days.

[Monkey_Driven]

The left freaked out because this man isn’t a pushover and he offends them by calling out their endless bullshit.

Those are not the reasons.

I disagree with it too, but I think his post was a pretty good description of how people on the right are experiencing politics these days.

Probably, though I would agree with liebzz that the root of our current political divide started in 1994.

[PHATJ]

Yeah, Josh, buddy, I really don't want to pile on but this reads like so much projection.

You guys really just can’t handle a single person not being a liberal, can you?

Honestly, it seems like the opposite is true. You talk a lot about how much you love pwning the libs. You've said one of your favorite things about Trump is the way he pwns the libs.

Are you sure it's not that you just can't handle a single person being a liberal?

My girlfriend is a life long Democrat and is a highly successful campaign manager that has won statewide elections as large as governor races. I love her more than anything in the world. I’m pretty sure I can handle being around liberals.

It's interesting to me then that putting one over on them is so important to you. I would think having intellectually honest discussions and trying to listen to the other would be even more valuable for you.

A few more things about her. She has worked in politics her entire career, about 20 years. She has worked at the capital under Democratic leadership. She worked for environmental causes and wrote bills that became law. She has worked as a lobbyist, typically representing environmentally focused companies. And for the last decade or so has been a campaign manager - all for Democratic candidates. She is currently running two campaigns. Actually, she’s running a press conference announcing a candidate as I write this. She voted for Hillary and has a significant distaste for Trump.

You know what else is True? She is the most patriotic person I know. She loves America and our military. She is a gun owner and has a lifetime NRA membership. She’s against illegal immigration (even though her father is a nationally respected immigration lawyer that has been asked multiple times to speak in congress on behalf of immigrants). She has changed from being pro-choice to pro-life over the last few years, mostly due to the extreme nature of the calls for abortion on demand, and the willingness of democrats to embrace extremes like partial birth abortion and even infanticide, along with the personal conviction that life is precious and our most innocent and dependent people should be protected and loved, not killed. She is an avowed capitalist. She is in favor of free markets and thinks socialism is against American principles.

During the 2018 elections she split her votes between Democrats and Republicans. Voting for the first time for any republican in her life. She said she decided to “vote for the best and most qualified candidates, not the team they are on”. She even voted against a democrat candidate in the governors election that she had previously run a successful campaign for when he won a seat in the state senate. She said “he was unqualified and far too immature to hold that office”. No one would know better than her.

She believes, like I do, that the Democrats are losing their base. Both with moderates and minorities. She sees it first hand in the fundraising and political calls she makes daily. She says that the Dems is losing voters over the economy, and over far-left views on things like immigration, taxes, embracing socialism, and being tied to ideology that supports things like idea of limitless genders, abortion on demand, and government run healthcare.

We are still a year out from the next presidential election, and she has no idea who she will vote for. Like I said, she doesn’t support Trump. She thinks Biden is an idiot. She can’t stand Warren or Bernie, and she doesn’t really think any of the other Dems stand a chance. So we’ll see what comes of it.

[4/5]

Probably, though I would agree with liebzz that the root of our current political divide started in 1994.

I have a current student who brings up 1994 and Newt Gingrich basically every day and if I let him he'll work himself into quite a rage about how Newt is the root of all evil in politics, followed closely by Mitch McConnell, of course.

[PHATJ]

The left freaked out because this man isn’t a pushover and he offends them by calling out their endless bullshit.

Those are not the reasons.

I disagree with it too, but I think his post was a pretty good description of how people on the right are experiencing politics these days.

It’s absolutely accurate. Because of the power of communication today, I’m literally in contact with hundreds (if not thousands) of people that would agree.

Maybe it started in 1994. I was 14 years old and too busy playing sports and chasing girls at that time to pay any attention. But that seems like a reasonable staring point.

[bune]

I don't understand the need to point out "it's just politics!" every time a politician says something. of course it's politics. that person is a politician so, by default, anything they say about their profession is politics. when the red attack the blue, that's politics. vice versa? politics. impeaching trump? politics. trump saying the stuff he says? politics.

so what are they really saying when they say "this is just politics!"

[verb_to_trust]

Can someone get PhatJ another job so we don't have to read all this shit?

[liebzz]

The point is made in the details. Democrats do not support killing infants. You think it’s making a point that you have a girlfriend who is shifting politically, but comments like that are the exact obfuscation and lying that are the root of the problem. I don’t say republicans want to kill immigrants in firing squads because they don’t. Stop trying to set the starting point of a debate on democrats support killing infants. There’s no rational discussion to be had when you blow credibility by demanding democrats support things that they don’t, including infanticide, partial birth abortion, socialism, free and open borders, etc. THAT is the reason we can’t have a peaceful political discussion.

[Strat]

The point is made in the details. Democrats do not support killing infants. You think it’s making a point that you have a girlfriend who is shifting politically, but comments like that are the exact obfuscation and lying that are the root of the problem. I don’t say republicans want to kill immigrants in firing squads because they don’t. Stop trying to set the starting point of a debate on democrats support killing infants. There’s no rational discussion to be had when you blow credibility by demanding democrats support things that they don’t, including infanticide, partial birth abortion, socialism, free and open borders, etc. THAT is the reason we can’t have a peaceful political discussion.

But that is what his facebook meme said to him

[Strat]

Also fuck republicans for hammering on about "less government" but have no problem with the government infringing on a womans rights and marriage equality.

[Captain Termite]

The point is made in the details. Democrats do not support killing infants. You think it’s making a point that you have a girlfriend who is shifting politically, but comments like that are the exact obfuscation and lying that are the root of the problem. I don’t say republicans want to kill immigrants in firing squads because they don’t. Stop trying to set the starting point of a debate on democrats support killing infants. There’s no rational discussion to be had when you blow credibility by demanding democrats support things that they don’t, including infanticide, partial birth abortion, socialism, free and open borders, etc. THAT is the reason we can’t have a peaceful political discussion.

But that is what his facebook meme said to him

It's bizarre that the solution for people who found politicians and media to be untrustworthy was to instead choose non-politicians and sources who are way more untrustworthy.

[PHATJ]

The point is made in the details. Democrats do not support killing infants. You think it’s making a point that you have a girlfriend who is shifting politically, but comments like that are the exact obfuscation and lying that are the root of the problem. I don’t say republicans want to kill immigrants in firing squads because they don’t. Stop trying to set the starting point of a debate on democrats support killing infants. There’s no rational discussion to be had when you blow credibility by demanding democrats support things that they don’t, including infanticide, partial birth abortion, socialism, free and open borders, etc. THAT is the reason we can’t have a peaceful political discussion.

Dude, some of the things you just said Democrats don’t support are the EXACT things that Warren and Sanders are basing their campaigns on! Sanders is a Socialist. Warren is too for all intents and purposes. They claim it outright and run on its tenants. They both have clearly said in speeches that they support abortion on demand - even going so far as to support a minor child having an abortion without having to inform her parents. They absolutely support free and open borders. They want to decriminalize illegal immigration. They want to give non-citizens voting rights. They even have healthcare plans that would provide illegal immigrants with free healthcare. You simply are denying reality. Or you aren’t listening to a word these candidates are saying. That’s why we can’t have peaceful political discussion.