Star Wars: Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[epilogue]

The chewie scene that people hate - they actually show two transports when Finn sees he’s kidnapped.

Oh nice! Didn't notice that. Makes it much better.

[epilogue]

And that’s the stuff I hate about JJ. He doesn’t truly respect his audience. Much like EV now feels the need to make every song an audience signaling, JJ likes to use cheap emotional tricks. None of those were necessary in this movie. All plot lines and scenes would have been just as meaningful and even better if we chewie was JUST A prisoner and threepio was JUST temporarily wiping his memory until he was reunited with R2.

I hear you. And I don't totally disagree with what you're saying. But I do think Chewie's "death" did have a huge impact on Rey. Removing that from the story would have changed her journey considerably. The 3PO one is certainly less impact full but it also helps establish where the characters are, how important this to them. 3PO (and the other characters) thinking his memory is gone for good is powerful. The fact that he still chooses to do what he does is meaningful. It changes everything when the known stakes are high. That the stakes don't end up being as high isn't really the point. It doesn't negate those moments.

[E.H. Ruddock]

But it does. Had they kept 3PO's memory wipe permanent, it would have been more impactful. He was sacrificed for the greater good. Instead it's "oh yeah, R2 has his memory, everything's ok"

[Simple Torture]

But it does. Had they kept 3PO's memory wipe permanent, it would have been more impactful. He was sacrificed for the greater good. Instead it's "oh yeah, R2 has his memory, everything's ok"

He forgot like 5 days worth of stuff. Imagine if you forgot the last 5 days of your life. You'd be so lost. For a few minutes.

[epilogue]

But it does. Had they kept 3PO's memory wipe permanent, it would have been more impactful. He was sacrificed for the greater good. Instead it's "oh yeah, R2 has his memory, everything's ok"

The sacrifice is still the same in world, though. I'm talking about in-world stakes and sacrifices, not how we feel as an audience walking out later. The characters in that moment make a choice not knowing. That's powerful.

[E.H. Ruddock]

Plus it's the compounding issue for me. Any one of these events would have been fine. But just undoing some big moment time after time kind of makes it lose the effect.
Chewy dead. Jk. Kylo dying. Jk. Rey dead. Jk. 3PO memory wipe after an emotional moment with his friends. Gotcha again!

[E.H. Ruddock]

But it does. Had they kept 3PO's memory wipe permanent, it would have been more impactful. He was sacrificed for the greater good. Instead it's "oh yeah, R2 has his memory, everything's ok"

The sacrifice is still the same in world, though. I'm talking about in-world stakes and sacrifices, not how we feel as an audience walking out later. The characters in that moment make a choice not knowing. That's powerful.

It's powerful to who? The made up characters on the screen? Sure ok. But by the end the audience is like "oh, he's sad now, but he won't be because they can bring that person back to life"

[epilogue]

But it does. Had they kept 3PO's memory wipe permanent, it would have been more impactful. He was sacrificed for the greater good. Instead it's "oh yeah, R2 has his memory, everything's ok"

The sacrifice is still the same in world, though. I'm talking about in-world stakes and sacrifices, not how we feel as an audience walking out later. The characters in that moment make a choice not knowing. That's powerful.

It's powerful to who? The made up characters on the screen? Sure ok. But by the end the audience is like "oh, he's sad now, but he won't be because they can bring that person back to life"

Yes. It's powerful for the people involved in what's happening. I'm talking about all of this from an in-world character perspective, not an audience perspective.

Rey does not make the same choices, is not the same person if she does not truly believed she killed Chewie. 3PO, not knowing that he can have his memory back, still decides to have it wiped is a true sacrifice. He doesn't know and still makes that decision, still decides, based on the odds in which he is expert, that the only way to win the war is to go ahead and do it. And he does so with zero idea that it can be undone. The story isn't about the audience, it's about the characters.

Kylo never died. Rey did and then Kylo used what power/life he had to bring her back. I don't see how that's meaningless or stupid or whatever. A character chose to give their live for another. The fact that we see that example from multiple characters isn't a issue for me. It's a theme of the film.

[E.H. Ruddock]

Of course it isn't about the audience. But it is for the audience. And getting them emotionally invested in the characters.

[wease]

But it does. Had they kept 3PO's memory wipe permanent, it would have been more impactful. He was sacrificed for the greater good. Instead it's "oh yeah, R2 has his memory, everything's ok"

The sacrifice is still the same in world, though. I'm talking about in-world stakes and sacrifices, not how we feel as an audience walking out later. The characters in that moment make a choice not knowing. That's powerful.

But they do know. One of them even makes the statement, “he backs up with R2 all the time.”

[epilogue]

But it does. Had they kept 3PO's memory wipe permanent, it would have been more impactful. He was sacrificed for the greater good. Instead it's "oh yeah, R2 has his memory, everything's ok"

The sacrifice is still the same in world, though. I'm talking about in-world stakes and sacrifices, not how we feel as an audience walking out later. The characters in that moment make a choice not knowing. That's powerful.

But they do know. One of them even makes the statement, “he backs up with R2 all the time.”

Right and 3PO immediately rejects that. It's clear that 3PO doesn't think R2 will be able to back him up.

For the record, I don't love all these choices. The 3PO one is the one that bugs me the most. There are a thousand work-arounds for that problem and JJ clearly went with the one that tugged at the audience. It feels slightly disingenuous. But the thing that helps it for me and the thing that I think matters most is that 3PO still does it without knowing that R2 has a solution.

It also allows R2 to have a "hero" moment with the narrative, which I appreciate as a die-hard R2 fan who is mostly pissed off and bummed out with the way this trilogy has used him -- specifically JJ.

[Strat]

I think it would have been just as impactful story wise if it were “I let them kidnap chewie!”

Or maybe even they could have actually used rose in that adventure and had her be in the ship that Rey blew up. If they weren’t gonna actually utilize her character this movie they could have used her in that manner.

[BurtReynolds]

But it does. Had they kept 3PO's memory wipe permanent, it would have been more impactful. He was sacrificed for the greater good. Instead it's "oh yeah, R2 has his memory, everything's ok"

The sacrifice is still the same in world, though. I'm talking about in-world stakes and sacrifices, not how we feel as an audience walking out later. The characters in that moment make a choice not knowing. That's powerful.

But they do know. One of them even makes the statement, “he backs up with R2 all the time.”

They couldn't even wait until after the scene to undo it. That's how little respect Abrams has for his audience.

[epilogue]

I think it would have been just as impactful story wise if it were “I let them kidnap chewie!”

Or maybe even they could have actually used rose in that adventure and had her be in the ship that Rey blew up. If they weren’t gonna actually utilize her character this movie they could have used her in that manner.

We'll just agree to disagree. It's night and day to me.

[Strat]

I think it would have been just as impactful story wise if it were “I let them kidnap chewie!”

Or maybe even they could have actually used rose in that adventure and had her be in the ship that Rey blew up. If they weren’t gonna actually utilize her character this movie they could have used her in that manner.

We'll just agree to disagree. It's night and day to me.

Stop yelling at me

[epilogue]

And again, I'm not saying this movie is perfect. Not by any stretch. I don't disagree with the general idea of what you're talking about Strat. It's weird and a lot of this could have been done better.

[epilogue]

I think it would have been just as impactful story wise if it were “I let them kidnap chewie!”

Or maybe even they could have actually used rose in that adventure and had her be in the ship that Rey blew up. If they weren’t gonna actually utilize her character this movie they could have used her in that manner.

We'll just agree to disagree. It's night and day to me.

Stop yelling at me

I'M SORRY

[Strat]

And again, I'm not saying this movie is perfect. Not by any stretch. I don't disagree with the general idea of what you're talking about Strat. It's weird and a lot of this could have been done better.

It’s really more of commentary about the kind of filmmaker and storyteller JJ is in general. While there are thing she really gets and things that really hit me emotionally at a Star Wars level - there’s just clearly a lack of artistic integrity or ability that leaves me wondering. Like Eddie Vedder these days.

[Mecca]

But it does. Had they kept 3PO's memory wipe permanent, it would have been more impactful. He was sacrificed for the greater good. Instead it's "oh yeah, R2 has his memory, everything's ok"

The sacrifice is still the same in world, though. I'm talking about in-world stakes and sacrifices, not how we feel as an audience walking out later. The characters in that moment make a choice not knowing. That's powerful.

But they do know. One of them even makes the statement, “he backs up with R2 all the time.”

Right and 3PO immediately rejects that. It's clear that 3PO doesn't think R2 will be able to back him up.

For the record, I don't love all these choices. The 3PO one is the one that bugs me the most. There are a thousand work-arounds for that problem and JJ clearly went with the one that tugged at the audience. It feels slightly disingenuous. But the thing that helps it for me and the thing that I think matters most is that 3PO still does it without knowing that R2 has a solution.

It also allows R2 to have a "hero" moment with the narrative, which I appreciate as a die-hard R2 fan who is mostly pissed off and bummed out with the way this trilogy has used him -- specifically JJ.

Team Joey.

I’ve often thought about amnesia and if the person you are up until the moment of amnesia (assuming retrograde) dies in some way as we are the collection of our thoughts and experiences. That instance of threepio is choosing to die and some past version of him takes over the narrative.

[VinylGuy]

going to see it tomorrow on Imax.

My farewell to SW.