Big swings for pop stardom

[Anders]

I don't think Kurt really knew what being huge actually meant but Nevermind was an attempt to get there.

Agreed.

[epilogue]

But is an attempt to be as big as possible the same thing that the OP is asking? If it is, then I agree that it totally counts.

[bune]

trag I think you’re way off the mark in this thread, buddy.

Yeah, there has to be something more to this than simply making more melodic, accessible music.

The Nirvana suggestion is insane.

Yea.

Disagree 100%. Bleach was born of an insular music community and reflected Kurt’s love of much harder music. Nevermind was a big swing for pop stardom and his journals confirm as much.

“About a Girl” is poppier than anything on Nevermind.

[Jorge]

Nirvana feels like a stretch based on what I had in mind but I welcome the debate

[EJ]

Yeah, I don't agree with the Nirvana suggestion at all.

[EJ]

Van Halen - 5150

New singer, synthesizers, sappy song writing. Much crossover appeal.

[tragabigzanda]

[epilogue]

I do not see how Dookie is a "big stylistic move" at all. Did it increase their audience? Of course. But they just wrote better songs. There's no big stylistic swing from Kerplunk! to Dookie. I guess I could entertain an argument that Nimrod to Warning is a kind of stylistic change but I don't see/hear that as that big of a swing to increase their audience.

Having said all of that, I feel like Nirvana falls in that same category. I don't see a big stylistic swing between Bleach and Nevermind. I do agree that Kurt wanted to be bigger, that he wanted to increase their audience, that he wanted to be huge. So in that sense I can see the argument that Nevermind was a "big swing for pop stardom." However, once we look at the OP, especially the part trag quoted and bolded above, that's where the argument falters for me.

[tragabigzanda]

Top 10 maybe?
Hello Morning
Close Captioned
The Kill
Place/Position
Do You Like Me?
Latest Disgrace
Recap Modotti
Nightshop
Break
Life & Limb

I'd maybe bump Life & Limb for Epic Problem

[tragabigzanda]

[LoathedVermin72]

the lady doth protest too much, methinks

[Kevin Davis]

You guys are so hysterically confused on plat's original concept, and it seems like many of you are confusing a stylistic shift towards continued relevancy with an evolving demographic with a "big swing."

Are you saying that plat himself, who doesn't think your Nirvana example qualifies, is confused on his own concept?

The "established artist" thing is what throws me off with the Nirvana example. After one album, it doesn't feel like there would have been a clear and consistent enough baseline for their sound (and to a lesser extent their image) for one to delineate between a transparent left turn and just regular evolution/growth. Jewel, Liz Phair, etc. had each recorded a few albums, and more or less staked out their turf, when those records came out, which made it abundantly clear what they were trying to do. I don't think Nevermind is the same thing at all; it's just an artist using his existing toolkit to make something that he hoped more people would like.

[E.H. Ruddock]

Kevin Davis, please see your bumped thread in GD.

[evenslow]

[Kevin Davis]

Kevin Davis, please see your bumped thread in GD.

SEEN!

[doug rr]

would fleetwood mac count in 1975 when they brought in lindsey and stevie?..they went total pop

[epilogue]

You guys are so hysterically confused on plat's original concept, and it seems like many of you are confusing a stylistic shift towards continued relevancy with an evolving demographic with a "big swing."

Are you saying that plat himself, who doesn't think your Nirvana example qualifies, is confused on his own concept?

The "established artist" thing is what throws me off with the Nirvana example. After one album, it doesn't feel like there would have been a clear and consistent enough baseline for their sound (and to a lesser extent their image) for one to delineate between a transparent left turn and just regular evolution/growth. Jewel, Liz Phair, etc. had each recorded a few albums, and more or less staked out their turf, when those records came out, which made it abundantly clear what they were trying to do. I don't think Nevermind is the same thing at all; it's just an artist using his existing toolkit to make something that he hoped more people would like.

I hadn't even really been focusing on this aspect, but I totally agree with you here, KD.

[Kevin Davis]

The Grateful Dead example is bogus, because they were not changing their sound at all. Some A&R's suggestion that a band with a massive cult following try to get in on the MTV action does not fulfill plat's concept.

Really? That sounds like it exactly fulfill's plat's concept. An established artist (i.e. "a massive cult following") trying to widen their audience (i.e. "get on the MTV action"). That said, two Dead songs have been suggested here. "Shakedown Street" very much pursues a trendy sound of that period, in a way that differs considerably from their established sound, and the band is clear about its intention. "Touch of Grey" I think was more of a happy accident -- that song had been kicking around for a long time, I don't think it was created with megastardom in mind...

[oasisfan35]

Eh, the previous album debuted at #1 on the Billboard 200 and they were already media darlings to a degree. This was more due to switching producers after the final Lillywhite sessions fell apart in my opinion.

[bune]

pretty sure bad albums don't count.