tragabigzanda wrote:Ok, so I just ran both the S/T Spotify master and the 2017 BOB mix through the Dynamic Range app, and this is what I got:
TL;DR: the Spotify remaster has a dynamic range of 7, while the 2017 remix has a dynamic range of 5. The original CD version had a range of 6, so the 2017 remix is more compressed than the original version; and the Spotify remaster has more dynamics/less compression.
- Spoiler: show
I've had a lot of interactions with HDTracks since 2011, and, that just doesn't sound like a typical response from them. Maybe you caught them on a bad day, but, the customary response they usually provide to an e-mail like that would be something akin to, "We offer the albums exactly as they are provided to us by the labels. We are in constant communication with our partners..." blah blah yadda yadda.bune wrote:I'm going to have to find that thread because it was a lot of discovery and it happened by accident. I even emailed HDtracks with the waveform asking why it was brickwalled and they said so? which was rough.
no no, that's the exact response I got (you can see it a little further down that thread) I just condensed it into "so?" because that's how it translates to me. I mean, they have an entire page about how they test for quality but then they turn around and sell whatever because someone's going to buy it.oneway23 wrote:I've had a lot of interactions with HDTracks since 2011, and, that just doesn't sound like a typical response from them. Maybe you caught them on a bad day, but, the customary response they usually provide to an e-mail like that would be something akin to, "We offer the albums exactly as they are provided to us by the labels. We are in constant communication with our partners..." blah blah yadda yadda.bune wrote:I'm going to have to find that thread because it was a lot of discovery and it happened by accident. I even emailed HDtracks with the waveform asking why it was brickwalled and they said so? which was rough.
In any case, don't want to derail this topic too much, as I have with a few others over the past week. Feel free to message me if/when you find that thread and want to suss this out a bit more.
Edit: That was quick. Let's bounce this to PM. Boss is coming to my place any minute now. Let me read what you've posted and I'll get back w you a bit later, OK? I see that was posted by tragabigzanda. I'd greatly appreciate it if they'd care to jump in w/ any further insight.
Great avatar, btw!
HDTracks is bullshit. They don't give two shits about sound quality. They are just music peddlers.bune wrote: no no, that's the exact response I got (you can see it a little further down that thread) I just condensed it into "so?" because that's how it translates to me. I mean, they have an entire page about how they test for quality but then they turn around and sell whatever because someone's going to buy it.
Checked out the thread. Thanks for the 411 on this. Good detectiving skills, bune, and thanks to tragabigzanda for the initial legwork. Gonna have to crank the streaming version of the 2017 mix now.bune wrote:no no, that's the exact response I got (you can see it a little further down that thread) I just condensed it into "so?" because that's how it translates to me. I mean, they have an entire page about how they test for quality but then they turn around and sell whatever because someone's going to buy it.
thanks.
This is madness. Unfortunately, every storefront, regardless of the PR spiel on their individual websites, is beholden to the same masters (see what I done there?Wendy Carlos's Twin wrote: They laughed at him. The shitty 80's masters are still being used on HDTracks right now.
). HDTracks, Prostudiomasters, Acoustic Sounds,, 7Digital, etc., all sell the same material.
VinylGuy wrote:I dont think its available anymore on Spotify.bune wrote:I really liked the Spotify mix that came out. has there ever been an acknowledgement of where that came from?
Just to clarify, there are only two mixes of this album: Adam Kasper's original 2006 mix and Brendan O'Brien's 2017 mix.VinylGuy wrote:I saw just the O Brien mix and the original one.
Birds in Hell wrote: Just to clarify, there are only two mixes of this album: Adam Kasper's original 2006 mix and Brendan O'Brien's 2017 mix.
There are however at least two different masterings of Kasper's 2006 mix.
The "Spotify version" of S/T is the exact same mix as the 2006 CD release however with a noticeably less brickwalled mastering job.
I wish it was available as a FLAC download but it's only available on streaming services, AFAIK.
I think the "Spotify mastering" is definitely the best the album has sounded.oneway23 wrote:Birds in Hell wrote: Just to clarify, there are only two mixes of this album: Adam Kasper's original 2006 mix and Brendan O'Brien's 2017 mix.
There are however at least two different masterings of Kasper's 2006 mix.
The "Spotify version" of S/T is the exact same mix as the 2006 CD release however with a noticeably less brickwalled mastering job.
I wish it was available as a FLAC download but it's only available on streaming services, AFAIK.
Thank you for the clarification! Very much appreciate it. Streaming only, after all? My OCD bristles!
Which do you prefer to listen to, Birds?
Sounds awful good from here...Birds in Hell wrote:I think the "Spotify mastering" is definitely the best the album has sounded.
wow. and it's not like there's a better place to find these things either if you want a hi-res album.Wendy Carlos's Twin wrote:HDTracks is bullshit. They don't give two shits about sound quality. They are just music peddlers.bune wrote: no no, that's the exact response I got (you can see it a little further down that thread) I just condensed it into "so?" because that's how it translates to me. I mean, they have an entire page about how they test for quality but then they turn around and sell whatever because someone's going to buy it.
The record companies don't care either.
Let's take The Monkees as a perfect example....
The original stereo and mono masters for their albums were discovered in the 90's. Before that, Rhino was using poor copy tapes mixed with remixes of songs they had multitracks for...horrible and inconsistent quality.
Guess which tapes HDTracks used and released?
The band's archivist was furious. He contacted Rhino and demanded they pull them and grab the correct original master tapes and use those.
They laughed at him. The shitty 80's masters are still being used on HDTracks right now.
there was discussion last week-ish about other albums sounding different on Spotify.Birds in Hell wrote:VinylGuy wrote:I dont think its available anymore on Spotify.bune wrote:I really liked the Spotify mix that came out. has there ever been an acknowledgement of where that came from?Just to clarify, there are only two mixes of this album: Adam Kasper's original 2006 mix and Brendan O'Brien's 2017 mix.VinylGuy wrote:I saw just the O Brien mix and the original one.
There are however at least two different masterings of Kasper's 2006 mix.
The "Spotify version" of S/T is the exact same mix as the 2006 CD release however with a noticeably less brickwalled mastering job.
I wish it was available as a FLAC download but it's only available on streaming services, AFAIK.
but it didn't get much traction in the thread.dimejinky99 wrote:Ok what the hell is up.
That’s a different version of future days too
https://open.spotify.com/track/22sDLvlz ... vQZtNWDv9g
they also released their albums in the HDCD format. However, if you use the hdcd.exe extension in foobar you'll see that absolutely zero HDCD er, 'formatting', was applied to the discs so they're basically clipped at 16 of the expected 20 bits of information.oneway23 wrote:Sounds awful good from here...Birds in Hell wrote:I think the "Spotify mastering" is definitely the best the album has sounded.
Back in 2015, Van Halen's re-mastered catalog was re-released on the download services (after having initially been sold in 2013).
Turns out that the 24/192 release has very little (if any) dynamic range compression or peak-limiting applied, while the 24/96 was absolutely appalling, in comparison.
Perhaps, in this case, the 24/192 version of Avaocado on the download sites is similar to the "Spotify" version? I'm not going to pay to find out, but, it may be worth seeking out to compare.
That's pretty crappy! I recall those sounding pretty bad, too.bune wrote:they also released their albums in the HDCD format. However, if you use the hdcd.exe extension in foobar you'll see that absolutely zero HDCD er, 'formatting', was applied to the discs so they're basically clipped at 16 of the expected 20 bits of information.
Yeah, sounds like I know what I'm talking about doesn't it.
Do you mean on RM?liebzz wrote:I think it’s safe to say their most under appreciated album.
Yes around here, I though I admit RM is basically my Pearl Jam fan base barometer at this point.epilogue wrote:Do you mean on RM?liebzz wrote:I think it’s safe to say their most under appreciated album.
If so, I could maybe agree. But I don't think it's as hated around here as some people seem to think. The artwork and the production get deserved flack but most people seem to enjoy the record.
And I know more than a handful of people IRL who love it. That includes more than a few who were introduced to Pearl Jam with this record and so it's still among their favorites by the band.
For me, the biggest "issue" is that it followed up Riot Act, which is a top 2 PJ record for me. Pretty much any album coming after that one was bound to be a step down.
VinylGuy wrote:Listened to ST on vinyl today. Man, what a ride. I just love this one so much and its been going up on my ranking a lot since last year.
The first 4 songs are up there with the best stuff they did, and maybe only Ten, Yield and Gigaton has such amazing first four songs.
Also, damn Stone, Jeff and Mike are on fire on this one.