Ms Harmless wrote:post-punk and new wave are huge genre blends
The Clash, Blondie, The Cure, Talking Heads etc. all sound totally different
edit: also The Police, who bring in Scar
Agreed but also punk in general is a "genre blend". It's a music genre that started with 50s garage-rock aggressiveness, 60s Motown/Phil Spector melodies, Pete Townshend guitars, krautrock minimalism, the DIY spirit of skiffle, dub, reggae, Velvet Underground, etc. It's a melting pot. I hate that when people think of it their mind goes to Blink 182 or whatever.
Anders wrote:I do not have a «neoliberal assessment of geopolitics», so please stop writing that I do.
Ms Harmless wrote:post-punk and new wave are huge genre blends
The Clash, Blondie, The Cure, Talking Heads etc. all sound totally different
edit: also The Police, who bring in Scar
Agreed but also punk in general is a "genre blend". It's a music genre that started with 50s garage-rock aggressiveness, 60s Motown/Phil Spector melodies, Pete Townshend guitars, krautrock minimalism, the DIY spirit of skiffle, dub, reggae, Velvet Underground, etc. It's a melting pot. I hate that when people think of it their mind goes to Blink 182 or whatever.
oh yeah, totally
it's kind of both frustrating and endearing to me that PJ keeps trying new wave, because 1. so many of their attempts haven't worked (it's my opinion that Gigaton is shaping up to doing so), and 2. if they can crack it, it makes total sense that a "grunge" band would do that, since "grunge" was also a big clash of different sounds, based in classic rock, Blues, Punk, Metal, Folk / Country, etc.
Ms Harmless wrote:post-punk and new wave are huge genre blends
The Clash, Blondie, The Cure, Talking Heads etc. all sound totally different
edit: also The Police, who bring in Scar
Agreed but also punk in general is a "genre blend". It's a music genre that started with 50s garage-rock aggressiveness, 60s Motown/Phil Spector melodies, Pete Townshend guitars, krautrock minimalism, the DIY spirit of skiffle, dub, reggae, Velvet Underground, etc. It's a melting pot. I hate that when people think of it their mind goes to Blink 182 or whatever.
While I know and agree wit all of this, my mind goes to a certain type of guitar playing.
This is also why i define two separate genres....Punk and Punk Rock
warehouse wrote:'blood' is one of their most 'punk' songs.
I think you're right that it's too angry to be categorized as "spritzy", but just to zero in on this point: "Blood" is in an odd time signature and has funky wah-wah guitar part running through the verses. I don't think it's "one of their most punk songs"
i guess i was thinking more energy and power chords. its also funny we cant agree on the definition of 'punk' but we are all pretty much on the same page with 'spritzy'
warehouse wrote:'blood' is one of their most 'punk' songs.
I think you're right that it's too angry to be categorized as "spritzy", but just to zero in on this point: "Blood" is in an odd time signature and has funky wah-wah guitar part running through the verses. I don't think it's "one of their most punk songs"
i guess i was thinking more energy and power chords. its also funny we cant agree on the definition of 'punk' but we are all pretty much on the same page with 'spritzy'
Strat wrote:It bounces. It doesn’t thrash or propel.
Gonna have to disagree with you all idiots here and this is where I part ways from rm. good luck. Morons
Hold on a second, all this time I was talking about the Touring Bank 2000 version of "Leatherman" because that's the only version I've ever heard. I just listened to the studio version (for the first time ever!) and it has a completely different rhythm, feel, and aesthetic, and I agree with you that I would not call it punk at all
I love the studio version of Leatherman so much. It's a top 20 PJ song for me. It's so much better than the live versions.
Makes me wonder how some of these "spritzy punkers" would have turned out if Jack Irons was still in the band. Maybe they would have leaned more towards "garage pop-rock".
evenslow wrote:man, people are really having a lot of trouble with the whole "spritzy" part of this. you can't just throw out any fast punk song.
spritzy is bubbly, can't-sit-still, sunny, giggly, hyper, bouncy. aka not anything off of vitalogy. whipping is not spritzy for god's sake.
stip is probably right that mankind is patient zero but that feels weird with stone on vocals. it's really more of a post ST phenomenon to be honest. they seemed to double down on that specific type of song as an automatic part of their repertoire after the self-serious approach of that record.
the fixer absolutely needs to be on the official list.
I agree with this overview, and I personally don't think anything until the self titled record fits the definition. I've seen some people suggest Save You, Get Right, and Green Disease as being spritzy, but I think those have too much of the old Pearl Jam dark mystique to fit the definition.
If you have to go before S/T, maybe Gremmie and Don't Gimme No Lip, but I think Big Wave is the original spritzy rocker.
Last edited by guitar_davey on Thu February 20, 2020 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
evenslow wrote:man, people are really having a lot of trouble with the whole "spritzy" part of this. you can't just throw out any fast punk song.
spritzy is bubbly, can't-sit-still, sunny, giggly, hyper, bouncy. aka not anything off of vitalogy. whipping is not spritzy for god's sake.
stip is probably right that mankind is patient zero but that feels weird with stone on vocals. it's really more of a post ST phenomenon to be honest. they seemed to double down on that specific type of song as an automatic part of their repertoire after the self-serious approach of that record.
the fixer absolutely needs to be on the official list.
there are about as many on the no code-riot act run as there are after. the big change is that they started putting them on albums
Strat wrote:Leatherman isn’t punk for fucks sake. It’s basically a folk song.
theplatypus wrote:
Strat wrote:It bounces. It doesn’t thrash or propel.
Gonna have to disagree with you all idiots here and this is where I part ways from rm. good luck. Morons
Hold on a second, all this time I was talking about the Touring Bank 2000 version of "Leatherman" because that's the only version I've ever heard. I just listened to the studio version (for the first time ever!) and it has a completely different rhythm, feel, and aesthetic, and I agree with you that I would not call it punk at all
Really glad this was worked out. From the jangly guitars to the relatively monotone but somehow really musical vocal melody, "Leatherman" always felt very REM-ish to me; even the storytelling component has a very "Fables of the Reconstruction"-ish feel. It takes on some punky elements live but it's not really in the song's DNA. I think the same applies to "U."
evenslow wrote:stip is probably right that mankind is patient zero but that feels weird with stone on vocals. it's really more of a post ST phenomenon to be honest. they seemed to double down on that specific type of song as an automatic part of their repertoire after the self-serious approach of that record.
The PRAMG-era punkers are less offset by other things, I think -- I can understand someone placing "BRY," "Hitchhiker," "Green Disease," etc. with "Supersonic" and "Superblood Wolfmoon" on the same general end of the Pearl Jam spectrum, but there are other things going on in them that make one (me, anyway) less confident about dumping them into a clearly defined "spritzy punk" bucket.
This probably undersells punk's diversity as a genre, as per Jorge's post above, but I also think this "spritzy punk" label that has been trending on RM is deliberately honing in on a reductionist interpretation of the genre.
Strat wrote:Leatherman isn’t punk for fucks sake. It’s basically a folk song.
theplatypus wrote:
Strat wrote:It bounces. It doesn’t thrash or propel.
Gonna have to disagree with you all idiots here and this is where I part ways from rm. good luck. Morons
Hold on a second, all this time I was talking about the Touring Bank 2000 version of "Leatherman" because that's the only version I've ever heard. I just listened to the studio version (for the first time ever!) and it has a completely different rhythm, feel, and aesthetic, and I agree with you that I would not call it punk at all
Really glad this was worked out. From the jangly guitars to the relatively monotone but somehow really musical vocal melody, "Leatherman" always felt very REM-ish to me; even the storytelling component has a very "Fables of the Reconstruction"-ish feel. It takes on some punky elements live but it's not really in the song's DNA. I think the same applies to "U."
I can see the REM comparison for Leatherman (much less for U), but this would be one of the worst songs REM ever wrote.
