Anybody want a Corona?

[Orpheus]

Josh, you realize now that almost 7% of infected dying is a lot, right? And this is without widespread testing. Those numbers are probably inaccurate. That doesn't give you pause at all?

[Rob]

64,715 deaths so far, according to google. The death count (and deaths per day) seems pretty high for where we're supposed to be at this point, no? I know deaths lag behind other metrics, but didn't we reach the "peak" a couple of weeks ago, after having been at home for 4 weeks (as of then)?

[Mickey]

I'm not unsympathetic to the need to get people "on their feet" or a denialist about the real economic harm extended unemployment could do. I just refuse to accept the naturalization of a neoliberal ontology that says the only options are risky work or mass unemployment, and I *am* unsympathetic to those who play a determinate role in accepting and propagating that kind of thinking.

[PHATJ]

Josh, you realize now that almost 7% of infected dying is a lot, right? And this is without widespread testing. Those numbers are probably inaccurate. That doesn't give you pause at all?

The reason it doesn’t is because 99% of the deaths have been people over 50 years old (95% over 60) and the vast majority of those that have died have had underlying health issues that also contributed to their death. Coronavirus alone isn’t taking these people. It’s the virus combined with other major infections or ailments. Anyway, in my opinion, the numbers where I live do not warrant the fear and loathing we see.

[McParadigm]

That’s a long ways around to say “acceptable losses.”

[PHATJ]

That’s a long ways around to say “acceptable losses.”

I wouldn’t say acceptable, but I would say predictable.

[B]

Josh is right in that the average, healthy person doesn't need a debilitating fear death from COVID-19. But I have parents and in-laws that still have a lot of productive and/or fun years ahead of them, and I have two kids with mild asthma. I don't relish bringing this disease to one of them. I also interact with dozens of people every day who may or may not have underlying conditions that do not deserve to be doomed to death because of them. I stay home when I can and wear a mask when I must leave, because I give a shit about people, even people over 60.

[Mickey]

It's more than a little intellectually dishonest to claim that those with underlying conditions who died of COVID were going to die anyway (true) and that therefore what they actually die from doesn't matter (not true!) . My grandparents were always going to die but I'm not less mad if they're hit by a drunk driver.

[Orpheus]

Josh, you realize now that almost 7% of infected dying is a lot, right? And this is without widespread testing. Those numbers are probably inaccurate. That doesn't give you pause at all?

The reason it doesn’t is because 99% of the deaths have been people over 50 years old (95% over 60) and the vast majority of those that have died have had underlying health issues that also contributed to their death. Coronavirus alone isn’t taking these people. It’s the virus combined with other major infections or ailments. Anyway, in my opinion, the numbers where I live do not warrant the fear and loathing we see.

Once again, without widespread testing we don't have an accurate picture. But let's say that's true. You're still okay with lots of old people dying?

I understand the economic problems people are facing, i was furloughed myself and just recently got my first unemployment check after a month. But why isn't that a call for better infrastructure and a wider safety net? Why is the attitude "we need to go back to work " rather than "we need to take care of people who've been placed in an impossible situation?" Why is the onus on you to risk your life rather than people to help you? Doesn't that seem a little backward to you?

[Mickey]

Josh, you realize now that almost 7% of infected dying is a lot, right? And this is without widespread testing. Those numbers are probably inaccurate. That doesn't give you pause at all?

The reason it doesn’t is because 99% of the deaths have been people over 50 years old (95% over 60) and the vast majority of those that have died have had underlying health issues that also contributed to their death. Coronavirus alone isn’t taking these people. It’s the virus combined with other major infections or ailments. Anyway, in my opinion, the numbers where I live do not warrant the fear and loathing we see.

Once again, without widespread testing we don't have an accurate picture. But let's say that's true. You're still okay with lots of old people dying?

I understand the economic problems people are facing, i was furloughed myself and just recently got my first unemployment check after a month. But why isn't that a call for better infrastructure and a wider safety net? Why is the attitude "we need to go back to work " rather than "we need to take care of people who've been placed in an impossible situation?" Why is the onus on you to risk your life rather than people to help you? Doesn't that seem a little backward to you?

I know you're being rhetorical but we know why, don't we?

[Orpheus]

It's more than a little intellectually dishonest to claim that those with underlying conditions who died of COVID were going to die anyway (true) and that therefore what they actually die from doesn't matter (not true!) . My grandparents were always going to die but I'm not less mad if they're hit by a drunk driver.

We also don't have a full grasp of recovery from the virus yet. If you live but its with reduced lung capacity and a host of increased health risks for the future, that's still very bad!

[Mickey]

It's more than a little intellectually dishonest to claim that those with underlying conditions who died of COVID were going to die anyway (true) and that therefore what they actually die from doesn't matter (not true!) . My grandparents were always going to die but I'm not less mad if they're hit by a drunk driver.

We also don't have a full grasp of recovery from the virus yet. If you live but its with reduced lung capacity and a host of increased health risks for the future, that's still very bad!

To say nothing of the fact that it now looks like COVID can cause sudden strokes in younger people--which, in addition to suggesting that we're still undercounting deaths, is uhh pretty bad!

[Strat]

95% of COVID-19 deaths in MN have been people aged 60 or older. 99% were 50 and older.

Less than 1% of the deaths have been people aged 50 or younger.

In Minnesota, 0.0667% of those that have contracted COVID-19 have died (343 out of 5,136 cases).

Minnesota has approximately 5.7 million people in 2020. That means 0.0009% of Minnesotans have contracted the virus (in other words, 99.9991% haven’t) and a minuscule 0.00006% of our population has died from COVID-19 (and 99.99994% haven’t died). And remember, as I stated before, the VAST majority of all COVID-19 deaths have stricken people that have major underlying contributing factors.

These are the facts. And numbers like these should not scare the average Joe and his family, and they definitely don’t warrant a continued state wide mandatory shutdown.

6.67% of people who have contracted it have died. Not .0667%.

Not to mention more than half the cases there are still listed as "active". So 13.6% of resolved cases have been deaths. (Of course, the real number is likely much lower since Minnesota isn't doing a whole lot of testing.)

I realized after posting this at like 4am last night that I forgot to convert the math into correct percentages. That’s what happens when you post while being completely exhausted.

What's got you so worn out, J?

Three kids, having a sleepover last night, and some personal things going on. Couldn’t sleep last night. I was crazy tired, but didn’t sleep until around 5:30 this morning.

*gigaton

[Strat]

Hey Mickey, fuck you, minnesota rules and is consistently ranked as one of the top places to live.

[Mickey]

Hey Mickey, fuck you, minnesota rules and is consistently ranked as one of the top places to live.

Imagine being the kind of loser who "ranks" a "place to live."

[McParadigm]

Hey Mickey, fuck you, minnesota rules and is consistently ranked as one of the top places to live.

They gave us duck duck grey duck, and like fools we rejected it

[PHATJ]

This is the last I will post on this subject for awhile. We each have our own reasons for feeling the way we do. The part that frustrates me the most is the misrepresentation that people who want to get society back in full motion are made to look like we don’t care about the deaths of some people. That couldn’t be further from the truth. I’m worried about the lives of millions of families being ruined by government overreach just as much as I am about this virus killing people, perhaps more so.

These aren’t my words, but I generally agree with the sentiment.

"For the people crying for the country to remain shut down, answer these questions:

1) How many children should starve in order to make you feel safe?

2) How many families must go bankrupt in order to make you feel safe?

3) How many wives and children must be stuck at home with an abusive husband/father in order to make you feel safe?

4) How many business owners should lose everything they've worked for in order to make you feel safe?

5) How many people are you comfortable with committing suicide from hopelessness and financial ruin in order to make you feel safe?

6) How many people have to lose their jobs, their health insurance, their life savings, and most important precious time with their family and loved ones they will never get back to make you feel safe?

Come up with an actual number, don't just dismiss the questions. Come up with the number of people that you think should surrender their lives for YOUR feelings and YOUR safety.

Does it make you feel safer knowing that your unwarranted fear and panic are costing others their livelihoods and even their own lives?
Each time you whine and complain about keeping the country shut down, remember what it's costing OTHER people for you to sit in your house watching TV, swallowing the panic narrative, and hoarding toilet paper.
Also, remember this - if the TV news had never told you to be afraid of this virus, you wouldn't have. You'd have never given it a thought, you'd have gone about your life as usual along with everyone else. You'd likely have never known there was a virus at all, you’d have thought that this was just another type of Flu. So, remember that all your fear and panic exists because you were TOLD to live in fear and panic. Regardless of whether things reopen or not, you still have the choice to stay home and not go places if you feel that is what is best for you and your family."

[Mickey]

"Government overreach" lmao. It was fun having you play-pretend at being a serious interlocutor but like all good things it had to come to an end.

[PHATJ]

"Government overreach" lmao. It was fun having you play-pretend at being a serious interlocutor but like all good things it had to come to an end.

Mickey, does it feel good to just be an insufferable prick for no reason?

[Orpheus]

This is the last I will post on this subject for awhile. We each have our own reasons for feeling the way we do. The part that frustrates me the most is the misrepresentation that people who want to get society back in full motion are made to look like we don’t care about the deaths of some people. That couldn’t be further from the truth. I’m worried about the lives of millions of families being ruined by government overreach just as much as I am about this virus killing people, perhaps more so.

These aren’t my words, but I generally agree with the sentiment.

"For the people crying for the country to remain shut down, answer these questions:

1) How many children should starve in order to make you feel safe?

2) How many families must go bankrupt in order to make you feel safe?

3) How many wives and children must be stuck at home with an abusive husband/father in order to make you feel safe?

4) How many business owners should lose everything they've worked for in order to make you feel safe?

5) How many people are you comfortable with committing suicide from hopelessness and financial ruin in order to make you feel safe?

6) How many people have to lose their jobs, their health insurance, their life savings, and most important precious time with their family and loved ones they will never get back to make you feel safe?

Come up with an actual number, don't just dismiss the questions. Come up with the number of people that you think should surrender their lives for YOUR feelings and YOUR safety.

Does it make you feel safer knowing that your unwarranted fear and panic are costing others their livelihoods and even their own lives?
Each time you whine and complain about keeping the country shut down, remember what it's costing OTHER people for you to sit in your house watching TV, swallowing the panic narrative, and hoarding toilet paper.
Also, remember this - if the TV news had never told you to be afraid of this virus, you wouldn't have. You'd have never given it a thought, you'd have gone about your life as usual along with everyone else. You'd likely have never known there was a virus at all, you’d have thought that this was just another type of Flu. So, remember that all your fear and panic exists because you were TOLD to live in fear and panic. Regardless of whether things reopen or not, you still have the choice to stay home and not go places if you feel that is what is best for you and your family."

See, this is a bad faith argument because it pre-supposes that the virus isn't dangerous. The virus that by your own math has a death rate of 1/15 in your own state. It's not based in fact. Does that not bother you?