Cops Are The Worst

[Superblood Wolfmoon]

It's actually quite easy to both disavow needless violence and condemn the history of racist policing and the structural forces that make today's protests understandable, including police antagonism that certainly made today worse. Holding more than one idea in your head at a time is relatively simple once your brain has progressed past what they call "the walnut stage."

This has been my position the entire time.

My guy, posting a "this is a protest, this is a riot" Facebook memes does not evince any nuanced understanding of today's events.

Go easy man, before Facebook memes he was barely comprehensible.

[Mickey]

Protestors in Philly have set a cop car on fire and are now trying to take down the Frank Rizzo statue.

Fake news though, right?

You have the intelligence of a doughy infant.

Weren’t you just discrediting all the main stream news sources I was siting? I’m confused as to which news sources are sanctioned by you. It seems to be whichever one you want it to be in that moment. I can’t keep up.

Circling back, though, because this got lost in the mix--this is precisely why no one takes you seriously here. I mean, you said it yourself--you can't keep up. At no point have I *ever* issued a blanket rejection of "main stream [sic] news sources." YOU did that. You've done that repeatedly on this board over the past few years. Here's just a few examples, including one from today:

Spoiler: show

All of a sudden Josh trusts the news.

Not really, but I know you guys do.

http://forums.theskyiscrape.com/viewtop ... a#p1544555

http://forums.theskyiscrape.com/viewtop ... start=4460

All I can (and will) do is continue to laugh at you guys bitching and moaning about anything and everything, while Trump gains support and momentum, and the Dems can’t even figure out how to run a caucus. Lolz 4 evs. How’s that scam impeachment working out for you dopes? You just keep making it up as you go along, but people with a minimum of at least 30% of a functional brain see how insane, corrupt, and pathetic you are. You are losing. The State of the Union tonight will punctuate how well the country is doing under Trump’s leadership. He can underscore his record setting economic success, prison reform, and countless achievements that have been reached with literally nothing but undermining and conspiracy happening on the part of Democrats and the media. Trump has completely exposed the left as the sham that it is. The average, hard working, American family man and woman are thriving and the left is actively trying (and as usual, failing) to destroy that success every single day. Democrats are a joke. They are a sad, miserable, failure of a joke. And this president has just made that visible for everyone to see.

http://forums.theskyiscrape.com/viewtop ... a#p1464015

Two things I'm thinking about this week reading this thread:

- The election is still 11 months away.

- PhatJ shares a lot of sites that are new to me.

The MSM has no interest in reporting facts when it comes to the president. I’ll have to find it, but a recent study showed that something like 96% of MSM coverage of the president has a negative slant. The media is incredibly biased and has zero interest in the truth. In reality it is a propaganda machine for liberal ideology.

http://forums.theskyiscrape.com/viewtop ... start=2600

So, as I said earlier today--when you have repeatedly taken the position that the media is inherently untrustworthy, given to bias across the board and ultimately little more than a propaganda machine, you have lost the ability to turn around and say "but but but the media says." You cannot claim that the media supports your point (about out-of-state protestors or about anything else), because you've already established, and everyone here knows, that you prima facie don't believe this information, or worse, that you selectively don't believe it unless it conforms to your already-established narrative (that Trump is doing a good job, that left-wing violence is a real threat, what have you). This is exclusively a problem for you, because you've already eroded any common ground on which to have a debate. This isn't a real problem for everyone else who, like most rational adults, do not exclusively sanction "news sources" like the word of god but read each story and claim against contemporary and historical context--like today, when I noted that actually the protestor's out of state status was only reported second-hand, and arose in a context that is at least a little suspicious, and should make us withhold both assent or dissent. This, of course, is not the same thing as "discrediting."

In short--it's not your conservative ideas that have made you a laughing stock of this specific sub-forum. It's this inability to think complexly and with nuance about the world--or at the very least, a refusal to make the effort to do so, and yet still insisting on jumping in the fray!--that makes people here dogpile on you, laugh at you, call you a doodoo brained dummy, and so on.

[4/5]

Why are you guys so desperate to excuse such horrific behavior. Cities are burning to the ground. Civilians are losing their businesses and houses. This isn’t protesting, its mayhem. It’s incredibly dangerous for everyone that lives in these areas, which are primarily minority neighborhoods and businesses. The lengths you will go to defend horrific, criminal behavior, proves how morally bankrupt you are. You actually have zero care or love in your hearts for humanity, no matter the race. You are mentally inept and wicked in the heart and mind. Destruction, terrorism, and potentially lethal violence in the streets benefits no one, certainty not George Floyd. Now people who had difficult situations already will have extraordinarily difficult circumstances for the coming months, if not longer.

Dude. Let’s give you the benefit of every doubt and assume that all the protesters are leftist minorities behaving recklessly and dangerously. Taking all that as a given, are you willing to give any thought to why people might behave in such a way? About the experience of black people in this country for hundreds of years? Or even just the last 50+ since the supposed successes of civil rights legislation? Or just in their lifetimes witnessing the clear inequality in the way they are treated by law enforcement? Like what must a person be feeling to be willing to potentially destroy their own community? Isn’t there a possibility, however remote, that these are good people who are otherwise law-abiding citizens who would have liked nothing more than to see change come legislatively but feel backed into a corner and that frustration and desperation ends up getting expressed in what we’re seeing? Is that possible?

[Superblood Wolfmoon]

Mickey hit the nail on the head. Some people really aren’t capable of critical thinking or understanding the nuances of complex issues. Just as newborns only see in black and white, the lesser-developed among us must process the world in the same way. Good or bad. Wrong or right. Liberal or conservative. It’s the hallmark of the classic 21st century American dumb-dumb.

[McParadigm]

The mayor of New York is defending cops for driving into crowds of protesters who were demonstrating after footage of a cop committing murder surfaced. This feels like the kind of moment we should be really united on.

[Superblood Wolfmoon]

The mayor of New York is defending cops for driving into crowds of protesters who were demonstrating after footage of a cop committing murder surfaced. This feels like the kind of moment we should be really united on.

Kinda circles back around to everything this is about...as long as a cop says he "feared for his life" then deadly force is justified. It's bullshit.

[blueviper]

We really need to go through each police department review policies and get them all up to a standard that respects the citizens they serve and move away from these terrible overreaches of power.

They’ll keep claiming it’s justified because probably, legally, it is justified under their policies that could be decades old. Just because they are legal policies, don’t make them right.

I work for a city and police department near the St. Louis area. It’s a small department. Police officers and supervisory staff are my co-workers. I deal with them everyday. This department has very stringent hiring practices to weed out possible problem officers. There’s a probationary period that if the new officer isn’t meeting the standards of the department, they can be dismissed. Commanders are constantly updated and enforcing policies to better reflect a more transparent agency. Officers go through a lot of training, and with a lot of medical / doctor facilities in our city, CIT training is expanded. They pride themselves on de-escalating conflicts with minimal use of force tactics.

A lot of this happened pre-Ferguson, but it’s also been expanded Post-Ferguson as well as state/county justice guidelines were changed.

I think all departments need to take a long hard look at their deficiencies and push for changes. It’s the only way you can get the public to trust you again.

None of this matters so long as police unions continue to exist. Qualified immunity is another issue, but thats just about Civil litigation.

Bad actors such as the coward of Broward County will get rehired and receive backpay due to union rules.

yes, independent contractors working for private security companies would be better.

Public sector unions shouldn't exist, especially not police unions. If you prefer the status quo where cops can murder and keep their jobs, at least own it.

Yes, I guess this would be a problem with unionized police. Where I work they aren’t in a union.

[PHATJ]

Why are you guys so desperate to excuse such horrific behavior. Cities are burning to the ground. Civilians are losing their businesses and houses. This isn’t protesting, its mayhem. It’s incredibly dangerous for everyone that lives in these areas, which are primarily minority neighborhoods and businesses. The lengths you will go to defend horrific, criminal behavior, proves how morally bankrupt you are. You actually have zero care or love in your hearts for humanity, no matter the race. You are mentally inept and wicked in the heart and mind. Destruction, terrorism, and potentially lethal violence in the streets benefits no one, certainty not George Floyd. Now people who had difficult situations already will have extraordinarily difficult circumstances for the coming months, if not longer.

Why are YOU so desperate to excuse such horrific behavior?

What the hell are you talking about?

The behavior of your lord and savior, Donald Jesus Trump. Absolutely nothing he does is moral. He has no care or love in his heart for humanity and hates all races except white. And if some of those whites speak Spanish as a primary language, he hates them, too. He is mentally inept and wicked in the heart and mind. He only cares about himself. You see everything the man does and continue to support him and his bullshit, racist MAGA agenda. So why do you excuse such horrific behavior? What kind of issues could you possibly support of his that are moral or reflect the care or love in your heart for humanity?

Sorry it took awhile for my response, I was getting my kids to bed.

I fundamentally disagree with your basic premise. And factually speaking, I have no delusions that Trump is a great guy, or eloquent, or anything of the kind. He is far too blunt and rude for my personal taste far too often. But I have also seen great progress made in many areas that are important to me, and the people I know. His financial policies have greatly benefited the vast majority of people. Before Covid, the economy was better than it had ever been and people of EVERY race were benefiting. I generally agree with his foreign policy. He’s a strong supporter of Israel and American allies. I love that he has zero problem cutting ties with worthless organizations that suck millions and millions of American taxpayers dollars out of our country. He’s strongly pro-life. He’s pro religious freedom. He’s pro second amendment. He has appointed judges that I have some level of faith in. I condemn all racism. I am also not naive enough to believe only white people are racists. I see incredible harm happening from groups like Antifa, as well as white supremacists. Both groups are despicable, hateful, and racist. I oppose a welfare state. Etc., etc., etc. Basically, he isn’t a leftist in any way, and neither am I.

I have no hate in my heart for anyone based on race. I think white liberals are some of the most destructive people on the planet. I see a great majority of liberal cities and states crumbling under horrific policy and incompetence. This isn’t a race issue, it’s an ideological issue. White liberals are some of the least compassionate and most racist people in society. They label any black person that isn’t a democrat an “Uncle Tom”. They label everyone that doesn’t agree with them as racists, yet they are the ones that believe all blacks think alike and must fall into the categories they demand or they are somehow not really black. They push for and pass social policy that has effectively killed the black family unit. They minimize the importance of fathers and mock the traditional family. They cater to special interest groups and teach a victim mentality. They discourage free thought. They want to silence dissent and censor free speech.

The list of grievances I have with the left is extensive. Trump is very flawed, no doubt. But the left is hell bent on the destruction of constitutional rights that I would defend to the death, and so will he. And I appreciate that.

The left just hates him no matter what. And people like you, that genuinely liked me before you knew my politics, can’t handle the fact that people like me don’t buy into their Trump Derangement Syndrome. I’m the same person you thought was great two years ago. My political affiliation has never changed. You just can’t get over it.

[McParadigm]

Remembering this exchange back in December:

American sees what huge assholes and arrogant pricks the left is.

I’m familiar with this “Democrats are so full of hate! Oh how I hate them for their endless hate!” zealotry. Every grievance you don’t share must be faked. Every political ambition you oppose must be secretly corrupted. Every policy idea you dislike must be a scheme. When you feel anger towards others, it is legitimate. When others feel anger towards your political teammates, it is unhinged bitterness. Every fear you don’t share is just a manipulative posture. You look at people whose values and desires are different from you and can’t see anything but hate. And in that righteousness, you are able to recognize the falseness of any evidence to the contrary.

There’s a lot of this attitude in the place where I grew up, and my experience is that the people who enter into it often have very little trouble reaching the next logical step: when I hurt you, it is justified.

[Rob]

I have no hate in my heart for anyone based on race. I think white liberals are some of the most destructive people on the planet.

LOL

Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Becoming clearer which side this applies to.

[PHATJ]

Protestors in Philly have set a cop car on fire and are now trying to take down the Frank Rizzo statue.

Fake news though, right?

You have the intelligence of a doughy infant.

Weren’t you just discrediting all the main stream news sources I was siting? I’m confused as to which news sources are sanctioned by you. It seems to be whichever one you want it to be in that moment. I can’t keep up.

Circling back, though, because this got lost in the mix--this is precisely why no one takes you seriously here. I mean, you said it yourself--you can't keep up. At no point have I *ever* issued a blanket rejection of "main stream [sic] news sources." YOU did that. You've done that repeatedly on this board over the past few years. Here's just a few examples, including one from today:

Spoiler: show

All of a sudden Josh trusts the news.

Not really, but I know you guys do.

http://forums.theskyiscrape.com/viewtop ... a#p1544555

http://forums.theskyiscrape.com/viewtop ... start=4460

All I can (and will) do is continue to laugh at you guys bitching and moaning about anything and everything, while Trump gains support and momentum, and the Dems can’t even figure out how to run a caucus. Lolz 4 evs. How’s that scam impeachment working out for you dopes? You just keep making it up as you go along, but people with a minimum of at least 30% of a functional brain see how insane, corrupt, and pathetic you are. You are losing. The State of the Union tonight will punctuate how well the country is doing under Trump’s leadership. He can underscore his record setting economic success, prison reform, and countless achievements that have been reached with literally nothing but undermining and conspiracy happening on the part of Democrats and the media. Trump has completely exposed the left as the sham that it is. The average, hard working, American family man and woman are thriving and the left is actively trying (and as usual, failing) to destroy that success every single day. Democrats are a joke. They are a sad, miserable, failure of a joke. And this president has just made that visible for everyone to see.

http://forums.theskyiscrape.com/viewtop ... a#p1464015

Two things I'm thinking about this week reading this thread:

- The election is still 11 months away.

- PhatJ shares a lot of sites that are new to me.

The MSM has no interest in reporting facts when it comes to the president. I’ll have to find it, but a recent study showed that something like 96% of MSM coverage of the president has a negative slant. The media is incredibly biased and has zero interest in the truth. In reality it is a propaganda machine for liberal ideology.

http://forums.theskyiscrape.com/viewtop ... start=2600

So, as I said earlier today--when you have repeatedly taken the position that the media is inherently untrustworthy, given to bias across the board and ultimately little more than a propaganda machine, you have lost the ability to turn around and say "but but but the media says." You cannot claim that the media supports your point (about out-of-state protestors or about anything else), because you've already established, and everyone here knows, that you prima facie don't believe this information, or worse, that you selectively don't believe it unless it conforms to your already-established narrative (that Trump is doing a good job, that left-wing violence is a real threat, what have you). This is exclusively a problem for you, because you've already eroded any common ground on which to have a debate. This isn't a real problem for everyone else who, like most rational adults, do not exclusively sanction "news sources" like the word of god but read each story and claim against contemporary and historical context--like today, when I noted that actually the protestor's out of state status was only reported second-hand, and arose in a context that is at least a little suspicious, and should make us withhold both assent or dissent. This, of course, is not the same thing as "discrediting."

In short--it's not your conservative ideas that have made you a laughing stock of this specific sub-forum. It's this inability to think complexly and with nuance about the world--or at the very least, a refusal to make the effort to do so, and yet still insisting on jumping in the fray!--that makes people here dogpile on you, laugh at you, call you a doodoo brained dummy, and so on.

Mickey, you ass, that’s precisely what I was talking about. I posted MSM sources EXACTLY BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE THEM. If I posted sources that I trust, you would immediately disregard the info because you hate the source. If I post a source you do trust, you completely disregard it because I posted it. That’s fucking dumb and it gives you some sort of freedom to not listen to anyone that opposes you.

[Mickey]

I don't know if I ever gotten so much signature worthy material in a single day. Just astonishing.

[verb_to_trust]

If you support Trump you are a racist. Full stop.

[Superblood Wolfmoon]

I don't find that it's so much that the "left" hates Trump as it is "decent people" hate him.

[Superblood Wolfmoon]

Just astonishing.

[Simple Torture]

Which of these guys trying to explain MLK Jr. to MLK III is PHATJ?

[McParadigm]

There’s just no world where the way to fix public fury at murderous police impunity is to expect people to calm down while police continue to CAUSELESSLY ASSAULT THEM with impunity.

That’s it. That’s the whole thing. I don’t care about your politics or your opinion about the protesters or any of it.

Among other things, expecting a population to calm down in the face of THIS runs counter to every facet of the ideology that says forced masks are tyranny.

[verb_to_trust]

Well, they should have GOT INSIDEEEE!!!!

[Mickey]

Just a quick follow-up to Josh's extended performance of not-getting-it:

The idea that you should not unilaterally believe any source, mainstream or otherwise, is something I've taught (and been taught how to teach) in Writing/Composition 101 at multiple R1 universities across the country. It is basically standard practice for any program of critical thinking at the freshman level.

[verb_to_trust]

Just a quick follow-up to Josh's extended performance of not-getting-it:

The idea that you should not unilaterally believe any source, mainstream or otherwise, is something I've taught (and been taught how to teach) in Writing/Composition 101 at multiple R1 universities across the country. It is basically standard practice for any program of critical thinking at the freshman level.

But you CAN believe the sources that aren't fake news. Try and keep up, my dude.