Systemic / Institutional / Societal Racism

[bada]

Crom is the only acceptable answer.

Only Barbarians from the north worship Crom. Mitra take you!

Crom laughs at your Mitra. He laughs on his mountain.

[wease]

Crom is the only acceptable answer.

Only Barbarians from the north worship Crom. Mitra take you!

Crom laughs at your Mitra. He laughs on his mountain.

Mitra fears not Crom's uncivilized ways.

[knee tunes]

Yeah well I'm just trying to learn on the fly... Pretty ignorant for sure

Learning to fly is a process by which someone recognizes that they don’t know how to fly, then sits and listens to people who do know for a very long time. Slowly, with assistance and care, they take incremental, practiced steps towards doing it for themselves. Their criticism level is low (especially at first), because they inherently recognize that their doubt or suspicion is almost universally fed by the very fact that brought them in, in the first place: their own lack of knowing.

If you think that’s what you’re doing here, then you really are doing it in the worst possible way.

Protecting predisposed beliefs, on the other hand, is a process by which every bit of information that doesn’t support those beliefs is dismissed, treated to disproportionate skepticism, and viewed as disprovable via posed questions (rather than direct response facts). In some people, this urge manifests itself aggressively, meaning they have an impulse to try and actively create situations where they can repel information in order to reenforce their own internal bias. And it is, in fact, a very powerful way to remain ignorant.

I think he said learn on the fly.

Also, people don't fly

[McParadigm]

Yeah well I'm just trying to learn on the fly... Pretty ignorant for sure

Learning to fly is a process by which someone recognizes that they don’t know how to fly, then sits and listens to people who do know for a very long time. Slowly, with assistance and care, they take incremental, practiced steps towards doing it for themselves. Their criticism level is low (especially at first), because they inherently recognize that their doubt or suspicion is almost universally fed by the very fact that brought them in, in the first place: their own lack of knowing.

If you think that’s what you’re doing here, then you really are doing it in the worst possible way.

Protecting predisposed beliefs, on the other hand, is a process by which every bit of information that doesn’t support those beliefs is dismissed, treated to disproportionate skepticism, and viewed as disprovable via posed questions (rather than direct response facts). In some people, this urge manifests itself aggressively, meaning they have an impulse to try and actively create situations where they can repel information in order to reenforce their own internal bias. And it is, in fact, a very powerful way to remain ignorant.

I think he said learn on the fly.

Also, people don't fly

lol I can’t read.

That’s fine, though. All I was really using that for is a jumping off point to demonstrate the difference between honest intellectual pursuit and the behaviors of worldview self-confirmation.

[tree_]

OK, so Sam pretty much answered all of my questions on this. There definitely is racism, some systemic, but not where people are saying there is and it's getting better. 2019 had the least police violence in like 20 years. We were heading in the right direction but maybe not anymore because people have gone crazy.

[McParadigm]

2019 had the least police violence in like 20 years.

[tree_]

Oh. I guess Sam's stats were LA stats. Forgot about that. Where'd you get that info? Looks like a useful stat tool.

[wease]

2019 had the least police violence in like 20 years.

Accurate statistics mean nothing. tree_ laughs at your graphs.

[tree_]

No, wease, I'm sorry but that would be true about those on your side of the racism debate. Take that finger you're pointing and turn it right back around. OK?

[McParadigm]

Oh. I guess Sam's stats were LA stats. Forgot about that. Where'd you get that info? Looks like a useful stat tool.

The lack of a comprehensive federal data report makes this statistic hard to track, because each tracking organization sets its own individual standards for whether a data point meets the criteria. So the numbers vary slightly across sources, but the trend line is the same.

Here’s the Washington Post’s annual figures, on their long-running fatal force tracker, which is slightly narrower in terms of what it will recognize as a fatal force event:

2017: 986
2018: 991
2019: 1,002

[tree_]

tree, you're not helping here.

How so?

Because you keep oversimplifying things into tropes like "black crime". While black Americans absolutely do commit violent crimes at a much higher rate, you should really consider the possibility of "why" and that all of this is connected. Systemic racism, poverty, crime, policing... these are all factors that amplify each other and make up the shitstorm the country finds itself in today. Trying, as many of your recent posts do, to reduce it to just "more crime = more police contact = more deaths" ignores a lot, if not the majority, of what has been going on for centuries to the black community.

Again, facts aren't racist. Of course "why" they commit so much more crime is an important question. Surely poverty, which yes, undoubtedly has a lot to do with the legacy of racism in the US is a huge variable. But police doing their jobs and addressing crime where it exists is not racism. That narrative is incorrect. Police of all colors target blacks more in areas with high rates of black crime. Of course black lives matter. Of course all lives matter. Black on black crime is the biggest issue. Not cops addressing the crime.

[tree_]

The ironic tragedy of this so-called BLM movement is black people will suffer because cops will be too scared to do their jobs in black communities with high black on black crime.

[tree_]

Pretty sure we need robot police. Humans just aren't up to the task. Or clones of the perfect cop.

[tree_]

Also we need robot fast food workers. And robot drivers. Humans are generally awful and untrustworthy.

[tree_]

Will robot police also be deemed racist for the higher rate of black interactions?

[B]

Will robot police also be deemed racist for the higher rate of black interactions?

No, but their programmers will.

[Bi_3]

tree, you're not helping here.

How so?

Because you keep oversimplifying things into tropes like "black crime". While black Americans absolutely do commit violent crimes at a much higher rate, you should really consider the possibility of "why" and that all of this is connected. Systemic racism, poverty, crime, policing... these are all factors that amplify each other and make up the shitstorm the country finds itself in today. Trying, as many of your recent posts do, to reduce it to just "more crime = more police contact = more deaths" ignores a lot, if not the majority, of what has been going on for centuries to the black community.

Again, facts aren't racist. Of course "why" they commit so much more crime is an important question. Surely poverty, which yes, undoubtedly has a lot to do with the legacy of racism in the US is a huge variable. But police doing their jobs and addressing crime where it exists is not racism. That narrative is incorrect. Police of all colors target blacks more in areas with high rates of black crime. Of course black lives matter. Of course all lives matter. Black on black crime is the biggest issue. Not cops addressing the crime.

I agree that cops are not out there racisting things up. Cops are nearly all respectful and effective, around 70% of them never even unholster their firearm. The perception is interesting amoungst officers:

[Strat]

tree, you're not helping here.

How so?

Because you keep oversimplifying things into tropes like "black crime". While black Americans absolutely do commit violent crimes at a much higher rate, you should really consider the possibility of "why" and that all of this is connected. Systemic racism, poverty, crime, policing... these are all factors that amplify each other and make up the shitstorm the country finds itself in today. Trying, as many of your recent posts do, to reduce it to just "more crime = more police contact = more deaths" ignores a lot, if not the majority, of what has been going on for centuries to the black community.

Again, facts aren't racist. Of course "why" they commit so much more crime is an important question. Surely poverty, which yes, undoubtedly has a lot to do with the legacy of racism in the US is a huge variable. But police doing their jobs and addressing crime where it exists is not racism. That narrative is incorrect. Police of all colors target blacks more in areas with high rates of black crime. Of course black lives matter. Of course all lives matter. Black on black crime is the biggest issue. Not cops addressing the crime.

The "why" is a huge fucking part of it though, tree. Why are crime rates higher? it could be because black people are getting punished a lot more stringently for the same crimes white people commit. Learn about the war on drugs and that could help you a bit here. Crime rates in many of these neighborhoods are often fueled by petty bullshit crimes that shouldnt even be on the fucking radar.

[Strat]

and tree why aren't you talking about white on white crime?

[tree_]

tree, you're not helping here.

How so?

Because you keep oversimplifying things into tropes like "black crime". While black Americans absolutely do commit violent crimes at a much higher rate, you should really consider the possibility of "why" and that all of this is connected. Systemic racism, poverty, crime, policing... these are all factors that amplify each other and make up the shitstorm the country finds itself in today. Trying, as many of your recent posts do, to reduce it to just "more crime = more police contact = more deaths" ignores a lot, if not the majority, of what has been going on for centuries to the black community.

Again, facts aren't racist. Of course "why" they commit so much more crime is an important question. Surely poverty, which yes, undoubtedly has a lot to do with the legacy of racism in the US is a huge variable. But police doing their jobs and addressing crime where it exists is not racism. That narrative is incorrect. Police of all colors target blacks more in areas with high rates of black crime. Of course black lives matter. Of course all lives matter. Black on black crime is the biggest issue. Not cops addressing the crime.

The "why" is a huge fucking part of it though, tree. Why are crime rates higher? it could be because black people are getting punished a lot more stringently for the same crimes white people commit. Learn about the war on drugs and that could help you a bit here. Crime rates in many of these neighborhoods are often fueled by petty bullshit crimes that shouldnt even be on the fucking radar.

As I said, it's an important question and I don't pretend to know the answer. However, there isn't evidence of an epidemic of police racism.