Systemic / Institutional / Societal Racism

[Self]

Probably worse, because with sheer talent, black people broke through in music, for example, in a way I can't imagine white people would have, faced with insurmountable opposition.

It's funny that within your defense of your racist opinions, you introduce entirely new racist concepts.

I think black people produced undeniably great music. Even when people are racists, they had to love the music. I think it's more undeniably good and influential than the music white people produced. Is this actually racist or just me being a fan?

You said yourself, "even when people are racists, they had to love the music", so obviously it's racist.

What I mean is that, in a time when black people are being held down, they still managed to break through in certain fields, with sheer, undeniable talent.

I think B's point was that you said that white people couldn't have done the same thing...because they're white. You're ascribing an inequality based on race.

Maybe I took it too far in the opposite direction because I'm white and it might convince you that because I'm white, I couldn't be racist if I denigrate my own race... You all seem to be thinking so illogically and unfairly... Who's to say how history would turn out changing things around jfc

Show me the illogical thinking in my response? The unfairness? A hint of bullying?

[tree_]

I'm done. Enjoy sucking each other's dicks.

[McParadigm]

I'm done. Enjoy sucking each other's dicks.

Looks like meat’s back on the menu, boys.

[B]

I'm done. Enjoy sucking each other's dicks.

[tree_]

This is how reasonable people end up voting for Trump, by the way. Not that I'm going to, but I get it. Racism isn't where you think it is.

[elliseamos]

I'm done. Enjoy sucking each other's dicks.

The last page should really be moved to his thread... let's talk about topics not fellow posters, guys.

[wease]

I'm done. Enjoy sucking each other's dicks.

Looks like meat’s back on the menu, boys.

You realize he'll be back tonight, right?

[tree_]

I will not be bullied into silence. I will be back if I'm not banned.

[Rob]

[4/5]

Giving tree_ the absolute best benefit of the doubt I can muster for him, it seems like there's a deep disconnect with what he views as racism compared with most everybody else here. I think he would say that a klansman walking up to a black child and yelling the N word in their face and stealing their lunch money is racist and he would condemn that person. But he seems incapable/unwilling of understanding that a system (largely designed by racist white people for a couple hundred years!) can benefit white people and subjugate black people and minorities. Anything that isn't the most overt sort of racism can get explained away. The world is complicated and messy, nuance is usually a good thing, and I'm generally a proponent of skepticism, but tree_, dude, it's like in the case of "is there systemic racism in the U.S.," you've set it up to where the entire burden of proof is on the affirmative and if you can come up with any shred of doubt no matter how flimsy, it's enough for you to discard that evidence. It's just such an odd way to approach an issue that you claim you're largely ignorant and want to learn about.

[4/5]

The question is, are the police holding them down today? When it comes to the chicken or the egg idea, are police responsible for keeping the black community relatively poor and in prisons? It's hard to answer that question. I'm sure it's not completely obvious, like so many of you are pretending today.

Dude. In between people calling you a racist troll there have been a number of posts that have articulated an answer to your questions, some with historical evidence and data and others with logic. Your responses to these posts have been to either ignore them or to say that they raise interesting points you'll have to think about. And that sounds really good but then 5 minutes later you're right back where you were before saying that there's no evidence of systemic racism.

It's extremely difficult to believe you’re posting this stuff in good faith. You seem to have your mind firmly made up.

[McParadigm]

I'm done. Enjoy sucking each other's dicks.

Looks like meat’s back on the menu, boys.

You realize he'll be back tonight, right?

I was talking about dicks

[tree_]

4/5 it's complicated. I'm just saying I don't know of evidence either way. Did you see the links I posted? There are subtle answers proposed to these questions that are somewhere in the middle.. I'm around there but definitely not racist

[digster]

Yes, when I think of nuanced responses to race relations in our country, I'd probably look to The Rubin Report and the author of The Diversity Delusion, also.

[E.H. Ruddock]

But all black people aside from the 3 he cites are telling him racism is bad in this country and systemic racism exists. But white boy tree knows better their experiences because he apparently has stats

[tree_]

I said that I agree systemic racism exists. It's like you're not listening to anything I say at all and I'm sure there are many people out there that would be offended by what you just said.

[wease]

I'm done. Enjoy sucking each other's dicks.

Looks like meat’s back on the menu, boys.

You realize he'll be back tonight, right?

I was talking about dicks

So was I

[Birds in Hell]

For what it's worth, I've (regrettably) been keeping up with this whole thread and the discussion generally and I haven't seen anything which causes me to legitimately believe that tree_ is a racist.

I think he's instead taking a very stark blank slate view of the issues however, which I expect is pretty confronting (or confusing) if you've already spent a lot of time experiencing this stuff first-hand, or formulating some strongly-held views.

There's a whole bunch of baked-in presumptions and base concepts most people bring to these discussions which tree_ (taking things on face value here) seems not to share. This is not necessarily because he's a virulent, trolling racist, but because he perhaps hasn't ever thought about it before, is trying to feel his way through this stuff (perhaps tripping himself up with some foggy reasoning in the process) and yet isn't willing to bend to the prevailing consensus without being persuasively convinced. You guys really aren't doing a great job of the latter by just yelling at him.

Note: I usually find tree_'s posts incredibly annoying, so this was difficult.

[tree_]

Yes, when I think of nuanced responses to race relations in our country, I'd probably look to The Rubin Report and the author of The Diversity Delusion, also.

being interviewed by Dave Rubin does not make you a deplorable person

Thank you bird

[wease]

Poor, poor Spenno...