dimejinky99 wrote:Getaway aside, I'm having trouble placing any of these in the context of a pj live set list.
And btw, they all become much more fun if you just imagine ed dancing along to them.
Or scary depending on your view of his moves
That is how my bf judges it: very danceable.
groetjes,
Mirella
I've been literally dancing and nodding my head in my seat to all of them
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
harmless wrote:
'Just a rock band' isn't an insult unless you take it as one. They were absolutely a rock band, but they were a rock band we fucking loved and effectively sold our souls to.
Maybe people just don't like these songs. Maybe there's not this weird bias that's coloring their approach to new material. Sometimes the easiest explanation is the right one.
Right, so it would be really nice if people were saying that, rather than saying "Obviously if poster X,Y and Z aren't liking the songs, I won't fucking them either. Look at the schmucks who like the songs, I mean PJ have lost it, why can't these idiots see that?" Is this the easiest explanation, that PJ has just finished and everyone else who likes their stuff is just a twat?
I don't want to go down a long road on this, so all I'll say is that while talking PJ's music is interesting, talking about the biases that stop people from liking new PJ stuff, whether it's not like pop music or not liking the band at all or thinking they're experimental when they never were, or any of that, sounds boring. It's come up a lot here in the past few years and it's way more annoying that someone feeling negative about new material, to me at least. And this is coming from someone who finds a lot to like in the new stuff.
It is (and I'm certainly guilty of starting some of those conversations). But as someone who does like the majority of newer era stuff it is also frustrating to talk about it on a forum where there is an aggressive and persistent block of posters who spend a lot of time disliking songs and trying to establish that people who do like them are stupid, have shitty tastes, are too easily pleased, etc. It shifts a conversation away from the pros and cons of the music (and discussions about WHY you don't like something are almost always interesting and entertaining and enlightening) and make it about the listener instead. So it's not uprising that people get defensive when an opinion about music becomes an attack on someone's character.
The negavitiy you speak of is even more exaggerated this time than it usually is. Come on it's normal that if I heard a song before you, and I loved it, knowing our taste don't overlap much you'd be less enthusiastic than if it were, I don't know, whoever has a taste that matches yours better. No one said you were stupid for liking these songs, stop using that argument.
I think if you're looking for a literal use of that phrase you're not going to find it. That doesn't mean it isn't being said, and you've always tried really hard to deny that this sort of stuff even happens. When enough people keep bringing it up over and over again it might be time to concede that something is there.
I don't know that it's any more overblown now than it is before. I haven't started (I don't think) any of these arguments this time, other than a few pissy responses to some of VtoT's obnoxious posts.
You may not start the arguments but you eat up troll bait like its your job. I don't know, maybe its just the baby....
Or maybe it's the trolling.
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
harmless wrote:
'Just a rock band' isn't an insult unless you take it as one. They were absolutely a rock band, but they were a rock band we fucking loved and effectively sold our souls to.
Maybe people just don't like these songs. Maybe there's not this weird bias that's coloring their approach to new material. Sometimes the easiest explanation is the right one.
Right, so it would be really nice if people were saying that, rather than saying "Obviously if poster X,Y and Z aren't liking the songs, I won't fucking them either. Look at the schmucks who like the songs, I mean PJ have lost it, why can't these idiots see that?" Is this the easiest explanation, that PJ has just finished and everyone else who likes their stuff is just a twat?
I don't want to go down a long road on this, so all I'll say is that while talking PJ's music is interesting, talking about the biases that stop people from liking new PJ stuff, whether it's not like pop music or not liking the band at all or thinking they're experimental when they never were, or any of that, sounds boring. It's come up a lot here in the past few years and it's way more annoying that someone feeling negative about new material, to me at least. And this is coming from someone who finds a lot to like in the new stuff.
It is (and I'm certainly guilty of starting some of those conversations). But as someone who does like the majority of newer era stuff it is also frustrating to talk about it on a forum where there is an aggressive and persistent block of posters who spend a lot of time disliking songs and trying to establish that people who do like them are stupid, have shitty tastes, are too easily pleased, etc. It shifts a conversation away from the pros and cons of the music (and discussions about WHY you don't like something are almost always interesting and entertaining and enlightening) and make it about the listener instead. So it's not uprising that people get defensive when an opinion about music becomes an attack on someone's character.
The negavitiy you speak of is even more exaggerated this time than it usually is. Come on it's normal that if I heard a song before you, and I loved it, knowing our taste don't overlap much you'd be less enthusiastic than if it were, I don't know, whoever has a taste that matches yours better. No one said you were stupid for liking these songs, stop using that argument.
I think if you're looking for a literal use of that phrase you're not going to find it. That doesn't mean it isn't being said, and you've always tried really hard to deny that this sort of stuff even happens. When enough people keep bringing it up over and over again it might be time to concede that something is there.
I don't know that it's any more overblown now than it is before. I haven't started (I don't think) any of these arguments this time, other than a few pissy responses to some of VtoT's obnoxious posts.
You may not start the arguments but you eat up troll bait like its your job. I don't know, maybe its just the baby....
the baby makes me crankier than usual, but a lot of that is my personality. I'm one of those morons who thinks that people who disagree can find common ground if they just talk to each other, and so I have a tendency to not just leave things alone
harmless wrote:
'Just a rock band' isn't an insult unless you take it as one. They were absolutely a rock band, but they were a rock band we fucking loved and effectively sold our souls to.
Maybe people just don't like these songs. Maybe there's not this weird bias that's coloring their approach to new material. Sometimes the easiest explanation is the right one.
Right, so it would be really nice if people were saying that, rather than saying "Obviously if poster X,Y and Z aren't liking the songs, I won't fucking them either. Look at the schmucks who like the songs, I mean PJ have lost it, why can't these idiots see that?" Is this the easiest explanation, that PJ has just finished and everyone else who likes their stuff is just a twat?
I don't want to go down a long road on this, so all I'll say is that while talking PJ's music is interesting, talking about the biases that stop people from liking new PJ stuff, whether it's not like pop music or not liking the band at all or thinking they're experimental when they never were, or any of that, sounds boring. It's come up a lot here in the past few years and it's way more annoying that someone feeling negative about new material, to me at least. And this is coming from someone who finds a lot to like in the new stuff.
It is (and I'm certainly guilty of starting some of those conversations). But as someone who does like the majority of newer era stuff it is also frustrating to talk about it on a forum where there is an aggressive and persistent block of posters who spend a lot of time disliking songs and trying to establish that people who do like them are stupid, have shitty tastes, are too easily pleased, etc. It shifts a conversation away from the pros and cons of the music (and discussions about WHY you don't like something are almost always interesting and entertaining and enlightening) and make it about the listener instead. So it's not uprising that people get defensive when an opinion about music becomes an attack on someone's character.
The negavitiy you speak of is even more exaggerated this time than it usually is. Come on it's normal that if I heard a song before you, and I loved it, knowing our taste don't overlap much you'd be less enthusiastic than if it were, I don't know, whoever has a taste that matches yours better. No one said you were stupid for liking these songs, stop using that argument.
I think if you're looking for a literal use of that phrase you're not going to find it. That doesn't mean it isn't being said, and you've always tried really hard to deny that this sort of stuff even happens. When enough people keep bringing it up over and over again it might be time to concede that something is there.
I don't know that it's any more overblown now than it is before. I haven't started (I don't think) any of these arguments this time, other than a few pissy responses to some of VtoT's obnoxious posts.
You may not start the arguments but you eat up troll bait like its your job. I don't know, maybe its just the baby....
the baby makes me crankier than usual, but a lot of that is my personality. I'm one of those morons who thinks that people who disagree can find common ground if they just talk to each other, and so I have a tendency to not just leave things alone
This is me all over. If you put 12 people together in a room they could change the world...
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
plus I (narcissistically, maybe) feel like I'm at least partially responsible for helping to create an open and welcoming environment in this place (or pj chat anyway), and I also just really hate the way the internet makes people think they don't have to follow the conversational norms that any decent person would use in a face to face conversation. So I'm an easy mark for troll bait
verb_to_trust wrote:You have bizarre taste in Pearl Jam music, so you're an easy mark for these kind of things. Do you ever feel alienated from the fanbase as a whole?
nope. I just assume everyone with shitty taste migrates here and cry into my metacritic scores.
I actually could care less if people like or don't like songs I do (well, I'd prefer they like them, but I don't care if they don't). My issue is always with tone, not disagreement. I don't think people should feel like they need to apologize for liking pearl jam on a f'ing pearl jam forum.
harmless wrote:
'Just a rock band' isn't an insult unless you take it as one. They were absolutely a rock band, but they were a rock band we fucking loved and effectively sold our souls to.
Maybe people just don't like these songs. Maybe there's not this weird bias that's coloring their approach to new material. Sometimes the easiest explanation is the right one.
Right, so it would be really nice if people were saying that, rather than saying "Obviously if poster X,Y and Z aren't liking the songs, I won't fucking them either. Look at the schmucks who like the songs, I mean PJ have lost it, why can't these idiots see that?" Is this the easiest explanation, that PJ has just finished and everyone else who likes their stuff is just a twat?
I don't want to go down a long road on this, so all I'll say is that while talking PJ's music is interesting, talking about the biases that stop people from liking new PJ stuff, whether it's not like pop music or not liking the band at all or thinking they're experimental when they never were, or any of that, sounds boring. It's come up a lot here in the past few years and it's way more annoying that someone feeling negative about new material, to me at least. And this is coming from someone who finds a lot to like in the new stuff.
It is (and I'm certainly guilty of starting some of those conversations). But as someone who does like the majority of newer era stuff it is also frustrating to talk about it on a forum where there is an aggressive and persistent block of posters who spend a lot of time disliking songs and trying to establish that people who do like them are stupid, have shitty tastes, are too easily pleased, etc. It shifts a conversation away from the pros and cons of the music (and discussions about WHY you don't like something are almost always interesting and entertaining and enlightening) and make it about the listener instead. So it's not uprising that people get defensive when an opinion about music becomes an attack on someone's character.
The negavitiy you speak of is even more exaggerated this time than it usually is. Come on it's normal that if I heard a song before you, and I loved it, knowing our taste don't overlap much you'd be less enthusiastic than if it were, I don't know, whoever has a taste that matches yours better. No one said you were stupid for liking these songs, stop using that argument.
I think if you're looking for a literal use of that phrase you're not going to find it. That doesn't mean it isn't being said, and you've always tried really hard to deny that this sort of stuff even happens. When enough people keep bringing it up over and over again it might be time to concede that something is there.
I don't know that it's any more overblown now than it is before. I haven't started (I don't think) any of these arguments this time, other than a few pissy responses to some of VtoT's obnoxious posts.
You may not start the arguments but you eat up troll bait like its your job. I don't know, maybe its just the baby....
the baby makes me crankier than usual, but a lot of that is my personality. I'm one of those morons who thinks that people who disagree can find common ground if they just talk to each other, and so I have a tendency to not just leave things alone
This is me all over. If you put 12 people together in a room they could change the world...
the thing is I don't believe this at all, and teach classes on why this isn't the case, but completely ignore it in my personal life
Lounge Lizard wrote:wait, wait, and what if... what if... what if the whole album is like... the Moon... with its dark side and it's bright side... and like we've only been allowed to have a look at the bright side so far... but once we hear the rest of the stuff we'll complete the circle and see the dark side too... and that's like the whole idea of the album to have two contrasting kinds of music on it... and this also why there's a track called Yellow Moon almost at the end of the record??? huh? huh??
What about Pearl Jam during the last 10 years even remotely suggests they would put that much thought into this album?
I just went through the listening party reviews and for all the remaining songs they had "dark, dark, dark" in their descriptions. Yay, this might still work!
verb_to_trust wrote:You have bizarre taste in Pearl Jam music, so you're an easy mark for these kind of things. Do you ever feel alienated from the fanbase as a whole?
nope. I just assume everyone with shitty taste migrates here and cry into my metacritic scores.
I actually could care less if people like or don't like songs I do (well, I'd prefer they like them, but I don't care if they don't). My issue is always with tone, not disagreement. I don't think people should feel like they need to apologize for liking pearl jam on a f'ing pearl jam forum.
I love this place for its freedom of speech and criticism, which I have flipping well exercised in the past, I can tell you. We can have intelligent discussions here about what's good and bad about this band without being accused of wanting to destroy PJ's career. But I miss the old Pit's sense of community, I miss having friends IRL from there, and I miss the slightly "cultish" sense that whatever PJ releases, everything deserves at least a passing interest, and let's be honest, I'm never going to be *not* a PJ fan at this point.
So I'm between a rock and a hard place, really. I don't always like it here but given a choice between here and there, I'll take here.
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
verb_to_trust wrote:What conversational norms are not being respected in this thread? I'm curious.
the same ones that are not respected across the entirety of the internet. The aggressive way things are dismissed and the way points are scored by going after things other people care about in as mean spirited or excessive way as possible.
i don't think it's been that bad in this thread yet,outside a few sporadic comments. Well, not recently. Who remembers what happened 300 pages ago?
harmless wrote:
'Just a rock band' isn't an insult unless you take it as one. They were absolutely a rock band, but they were a rock band we fucking loved and effectively sold our souls to.
Maybe people just don't like these songs. Maybe there's not this weird bias that's coloring their approach to new material. Sometimes the easiest explanation is the right one.
Right, so it would be really nice if people were saying that, rather than saying "Obviously if poster X,Y and Z aren't liking the songs, I won't fucking them either. Look at the schmucks who like the songs, I mean PJ have lost it, why can't these idiots see that?" Is this the easiest explanation, that PJ has just finished and everyone else who likes their stuff is just a twat?
I don't want to go down a long road on this, so all I'll say is that while talking PJ's music is interesting, talking about the biases that stop people from liking new PJ stuff, whether it's not like pop music or not liking the band at all or thinking they're experimental when they never were, or any of that, sounds boring. It's come up a lot here in the past few years and it's way more annoying that someone feeling negative about new material, to me at least. And this is coming from someone who finds a lot to like in the new stuff.
It is (and I'm certainly guilty of starting some of those conversations). But as someone who does like the majority of newer era stuff it is also frustrating to talk about it on a forum where there is an aggressive and persistent block of posters who spend a lot of time disliking songs and trying to establish that people who do like them are stupid, have shitty tastes, are too easily pleased, etc. It shifts a conversation away from the pros and cons of the music (and discussions about WHY you don't like something are almost always interesting and entertaining and enlightening) and make it about the listener instead. So it's not uprising that people get defensive when an opinion about music becomes an attack on someone's character.
The negavitiy you speak of is even more exaggerated this time than it usually is. Come on it's normal that if I heard a song before you, and I loved it, knowing our taste don't overlap much you'd be less enthusiastic than if it were, I don't know, whoever has a taste that matches yours better. No one said you were stupid for liking these songs, stop using that argument.
I think if you're looking for a literal use of that phrase you're not going to find it. That doesn't mean it isn't being said, and you've always tried really hard to deny that this sort of stuff even happens. When enough people keep bringing it up over and over again it might be time to concede that something is there.
I don't know that it's any more overblown now than it is before. I haven't started (I don't think) any of these arguments this time, other than a few pissy responses to some of VtoT's obnoxious posts.
You may not start the arguments but you eat up troll bait like its your job. I don't know, maybe its just the baby....
the baby makes me crankier than usual, but a lot of that is my personality. I'm one of those morons who thinks that people who disagree can find common ground if they just talk to each other, and so I have a tendency to not just leave things alone
This is me all over. If you put 12 people together in a room they could change the world...
the thing is I don't believe this at all, and teach classes on why this isn't the case, but completely ignore it in my personal life
I'm sort of the opposite. Inside I feel as if everything is fucked and the world is going to hell in a handbasket and nothing can save it. But I've been protesting government and campaigning for disabled rights with my writing and editing, and I guess "Everything's fucked" isn't the best protest banner or tagline, so I've had to um... adjust my approach.
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
verb_to_trust wrote:What conversational norms are not being respected in this thread? I'm curious.
the same ones that are not respected across the entirety of the internet. The aggressive way things are dismissed and the way points are scored by going after things other people care about in as mean spirited or excessive way as possible.
i don't think it's been that bad in this thread yet,outside a few sporadic comments. Well, not recently. Who remembers what happened 300 pages ago?
I do. Sometimes I still cut myself because of it.
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
harmless wrote:
'Just a rock band' isn't an insult unless you take it as one. They were absolutely a rock band, but they were a rock band we fucking loved and effectively sold our souls to.
Maybe people just don't like these songs. Maybe there's not this weird bias that's coloring their approach to new material. Sometimes the easiest explanation is the right one.
Right, so it would be really nice if people were saying that, rather than saying "Obviously if poster X,Y and Z aren't liking the songs, I won't fucking them either. Look at the schmucks who like the songs, I mean PJ have lost it, why can't these idiots see that?" Is this the easiest explanation, that PJ has just finished and everyone else who likes their stuff is just a twat?
I don't want to go down a long road on this, so all I'll say is that while talking PJ's music is interesting, talking about the biases that stop people from liking new PJ stuff, whether it's not like pop music or not liking the band at all or thinking they're experimental when they never were, or any of that, sounds boring. It's come up a lot here in the past few years and it's way more annoying that someone feeling negative about new material, to me at least. And this is coming from someone who finds a lot to like in the new stuff.
It is (and I'm certainly guilty of starting some of those conversations). But as someone who does like the majority of newer era stuff it is also frustrating to talk about it on a forum where there is an aggressive and persistent block of posters who spend a lot of time disliking songs and trying to establish that people who do like them are stupid, have shitty tastes, are too easily pleased, etc. It shifts a conversation away from the pros and cons of the music (and discussions about WHY you don't like something are almost always interesting and entertaining and enlightening) and make it about the listener instead. So it's not uprising that people get defensive when an opinion about music becomes an attack on someone's character.
The negavitiy you speak of is even more exaggerated this time than it usually is. Come on it's normal that if I heard a song before you, and I loved it, knowing our taste don't overlap much you'd be less enthusiastic than if it were, I don't know, whoever has a taste that matches yours better. No one said you were stupid for liking these songs, stop using that argument.
I think if you're looking for a literal use of that phrase you're not going to find it. That doesn't mean it isn't being said, and you've always tried really hard to deny that this sort of stuff even happens. When enough people keep bringing it up over and over again it might be time to concede that something is there.
I don't know that it's any more overblown now than it is before. I haven't started (I don't think) any of these arguments this time, other than a few pissy responses to some of VtoT's obnoxious posts.
You may not start the arguments but you eat up troll bait like its your job. I don't know, maybe its just the baby....
the baby makes me crankier than usual, but a lot of that is my personality. I'm one of those morons who thinks that people who disagree can find common ground if they just talk to each other, and so I have a tendency to not just leave things alone
This is me all over. If you put 12 people together in a room they could change the world...
the thing is I don't believe this at all, and teach classes on why this isn't the case, but completely ignore it in my personal life
I'm sort of the opposite. Inside I feel as if everything is fucked and the world is going to hell in a handbasket and nothing can save it. But I've been protesting government and campaigning for disabled rights with my writing and editing, and I guess "Everything's fucked" isn't the best protest banner or tagline, so I've had to um... adjust my approach.
i don't think everything is fucked, mind you. I just don't think problems are solved by 12 people talking to each other . It takes social movements and conflict and engagement. "Power concedes nothing without a demand."
verb_to_trust wrote:What conversational norms are not being respected in this thread? I'm curious.
the same ones that are not respected across the entirety of the internet. The aggressive way things are dismissed and the way points are scored by going after things other people care about in as mean spirited or excessive way as possible.
i don't think it's been that bad in this thread yet,outside a few sporadic comments. Well, not recently. Who remembers what happened 300 pages ago?
harmless wrote:
'Just a rock band' isn't an insult unless you take it as one. They were absolutely a rock band, but they were a rock band we fucking loved and effectively sold our souls to.
Maybe people just don't like these songs. Maybe there's not this weird bias that's coloring their approach to new material. Sometimes the easiest explanation is the right one.
Right, so it would be really nice if people were saying that, rather than saying "Obviously if poster X,Y and Z aren't liking the songs, I won't fucking them either. Look at the schmucks who like the songs, I mean PJ have lost it, why can't these idiots see that?" Is this the easiest explanation, that PJ has just finished and everyone else who likes their stuff is just a twat?
I don't want to go down a long road on this, so all I'll say is that while talking PJ's music is interesting, talking about the biases that stop people from liking new PJ stuff, whether it's not like pop music or not liking the band at all or thinking they're experimental when they never were, or any of that, sounds boring. It's come up a lot here in the past few years and it's way more annoying that someone feeling negative about new material, to me at least. And this is coming from someone who finds a lot to like in the new stuff.
It is (and I'm certainly guilty of starting some of those conversations). But as someone who does like the majority of newer era stuff it is also frustrating to talk about it on a forum where there is an aggressive and persistent block of posters who spend a lot of time disliking songs and trying to establish that people who do like them are stupid, have shitty tastes, are too easily pleased, etc. It shifts a conversation away from the pros and cons of the music (and discussions about WHY you don't like something are almost always interesting and entertaining and enlightening) and make it about the listener instead. So it's not uprising that people get defensive when an opinion about music becomes an attack on someone's character.
The negavitiy you speak of is even more exaggerated this time than it usually is. Come on it's normal that if I heard a song before you, and I loved it, knowing our taste don't overlap much you'd be less enthusiastic than if it were, I don't know, whoever has a taste that matches yours better. No one said you were stupid for liking these songs, stop using that argument.
I think if you're looking for a literal use of that phrase you're not going to find it. That doesn't mean it isn't being said, and you've always tried really hard to deny that this sort of stuff even happens. When enough people keep bringing it up over and over again it might be time to concede that something is there.
I don't know that it's any more overblown now than it is before. I haven't started (I don't think) any of these arguments this time, other than a few pissy responses to some of VtoT's obnoxious posts.
You may not start the arguments but you eat up troll bait like its your job. I don't know, maybe its just the baby....
the baby makes me crankier than usual, but a lot of that is my personality. I'm one of those morons who thinks that people who disagree can find common ground if they just talk to each other, and so I have a tendency to not just leave things alone
This is me all over. If you put 12 people together in a room they could change the world...
the thing is I don't believe this at all, and teach classes on why this isn't the case, but completely ignore it in my personal life
I'm sort of the opposite. Inside I feel as if everything is fucked and the world is going to hell in a handbasket and nothing can save it. But I've been protesting government and campaigning for disabled rights with my writing and editing, and I guess "Everything's fucked" isn't the best protest banner or tagline, so I've had to um... adjust my approach.
i don't think everything is fucked, mind you. I just don't think problems are solved by 12 people talking to each other . It takes social movements and conflict and engagement. "Power concedes nothing without a demand."
Yes, definitely.
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
verb_to_trust wrote:What conversational norms are not being respected in this thread? I'm curious.
the same ones that are not respected across the entirety of the internet. The aggressive way things are dismissed and the way points are scored by going after things other people care about in as mean spirited or excessive way as possible.
i don't think it's been that bad in this thread yet,outside a few sporadic comments. Well, not recently. Who remembers what happened 300 pages ago?
I do. Sometimes I still cut myself because of it.
okay, well at least they're not going to waste
I also really like NIN's 'Hesitation Marks'.
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
verb_to_trust wrote:What conversational norms are not being respected in this thread? I'm curious.
the same ones that are not respected across the entirety of the internet. The aggressive way things are dismissed and the way points are scored by going after things other people care about in as mean spirited or excessive way as possible.
i don't think it's been that bad in this thread yet,outside a few sporadic comments. Well, not recently. Who remembers what happened 300 pages ago?
It's okay