Systemic / Institutional / Societal Racism

[wease]

Doing research on something else and came across this image. Obviously the specifics are different but the attitude feels familiar.

Is that young tree_ hanging out the window?

[Jorge]

Wease!

[tree_]

Who are you talking about and how, 4/5?

[4/5]

Who are you talking about and how, 4/5?

Nobody specific. Nobody in this thread. To be clear I don't think that you've said anything that would make me call you a racist.

I really did stumble across that picture and that attitude felt so familiar. Just the general kind of "What about white people?!" outrage that seems to always come out when people talk about minority rights/discrimination. It was just an observation, certainly not an accusation.

[wease]

Wease!

What? Calling them like I see them.

[tree_]

Reported. I don't think there's much worse of a person, if any, than a racist and I don't deserve to be called one repeatedly.

[Rob]

Reported. I don't think there's much worse of a person, if any, than a racist and I don't deserve to be called one repeatedly.

The IDW would not approve of you reporting someone for their speech, would they?

[Strat]

is wease black? Tree has a history with tattling on black people

[B]

Reported. I don't think there's much worse of a person, if any, than a racist and I don't deserve to be called one repeatedly.

tree_, you've been making racist arguments for 2 weeks now. Would your prefer "non-racist person who has racist opinions"?

[tree_]

List one racist argument or remark I have made

[wease]

is wease black? Tree has a history with tattling on black people

He sure does!!

[wease]

Reported. I don't think there's much worse of a person, if any, than a racist and I don't deserve to be called one repeatedly.

Imagine that. You telling on someone.

[Norah]

lol

[tree_]

To me it's the worst thing you can accuse someone of. At least justify your opinion that I'm a racist.

[Rob]

Unwilling to see racism for what it is seems a better explanation. You've spent a lot of time theorizing that racism doesn't explain things that other people believe it clearly does.

[tree_]

Doesn't make me racist. Free speech is one thing, harassment is another.

[Strat]

I dont think you are racist tree. I really dont.

I think you have a major fucking blindspot regarding race and you often seem to be willfully obtuse and/or play devils advocate that brings into question your moral ground at times.

[tree_]

For posterity

yeah

As Orwell illustrated in 1984, the power in compelling speech is that, in time, thought is compelled as well. Those who want to compel what you think, may well start by compelling what you say. This, in a nutshell, is the problem with compelled speech. If we are all required to shout and proclaim "hashtag black lives matter" at all times, meaning that we are constantly focused on race as THE explanatory factor in society, and similarly if we are told constantly that all divergent outcomes between men and women, in which women come out behind is due to sexism, we have arrived at compelled thought. Humans, I believe, have inherently scientific minds. Which means that we can propose multiple explanations for an observed phenomenon and try to distinguish between those explanations. All children do this. Many children have this intuitive scientific tinkering drove out of them in school and by authority figures of all kinds. Looking for what is actually going on takes time, it's messy, and it will offend many of those who have arrived at the conclusion that they, themselves like. They will try to stop the investigation. They may even try to tell you that it is racist to investigate. Compelled speech restricts scientific tendencies and so leads to compelled thought. If The Overton Window has shrunk so far that an observation of a pattern has only one allowable explanation then we have neither freedom of speech nor thought and we have abandoned science... We also have little chance of actually fixing the problem, unless the one officially sanctioned explanation happens to be fully explanatory for all observed patterns, in all cases. I can guarantee that racism is not the only explanation for racial disparities and health outcomes. I can also guarantee that racism is insufficiently precise to be actionable, and this in part is the goal of the activists.

[Rob]

For posterity

yeah

As Orwell illustrated in 1984, the power in compelling speech is that, in time, thought is compelled as well. Those who want to compel what you think, may well start by compelling what you say. This, in a nutshell, is the problem with compelled speech. If we are all required to shout and proclaim "hashtag black lives matter" at all times, meaning that we are constantly focused on race as THE explanatory factor in society, and similarly if we are told constantly that all divergent outcomes between men and women, in which women come out behind is due to sexism, we have arrived at compelled thought. Humans, I believe, have inherently scientific minds. Which means that we can propose multiple explanations for an observed phenomenon and try to distinguish between those explanations. All children do this. Many children have this intuitive scientific tinkering drove out of them in school and by authority figures of all kinds. Looking for what is actually going on takes time, it's messy, and it will offend many of those who have arrived at the conclusion that they, themselves like. They will try to stop the investigation. They may even try to tell you that it is racist to investigate. Compelled speech restricts scientific tendencies and so leads to compelled thought. If The Overton Window has shrunk so far that an observation of a pattern has only one allowable explanation then we have neither freedom of speech nor thought and we have abandoned science... We also have little chance of actually fixing the problem, unless the one officially sanctioned explanation happens to be fully explanatory for all observed patterns, in all cases. I can guarantee that racism is not the only explanation for racial disparities and health outcomes. I can also guarantee that racism is insufficiently precise to be actionable, and this in part is the goal of the activists.

This thread is 44 pages long, man. One of the fastest moving threads in this sub-forum. To suggest anyone tried to stop your "investigation" is ludicrous. It does suggest that maybe the IDW vids you love have gotten to you and you are obsessed with the "radical left boogeyman" in your head.

[tree_]

I am being called a racist though, and when not, questioned for my integrity, for simply saying racism isn't the whole story.