The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump

[Superblood Wolfmoon]

I think I’d rather stick a white-hot poker up my dickhole than talk politics with a Trump supporter.

[tragabigzanda]

I just want to know the most basic argument against him being good for the economy. My wife seems to think this too.

Try this: a strong economy requires a healthy functioning workforce; and that workforce requires science-based safeguards to make sure that they remain healthy and functioning. And this president has good at those safeguards and basically every opportunity, and he completely owns this tanked economy.

Automation will take things from here

This is an increasing threat, to be sure. Neither party is addressing it. But I can tell you that in China, there are widespread reports that they've parked the tractors and backhoes in storage, just so they can pay people to dig ditches again.

[tree_]

UBI. Yang should be our candidate. Maybe next time.

[verb_to_trust]

Why not just give us money? Why do we have to dig ditches?

[B]

So an economy that was doing OK + pro-life + church loves him! = better than baby-murdering alternative.



Probably best not to even try.

At this point, anyone still supporting Trump is beyond the reach of rational thought. Best to avoid politics and answer with "Oh, OK," if he decides to hit you with his opinions.

Last time he was talking about it, I replied "but we can all agree that personality-wise, he's an unstable maniac at best, right?" and we all laughed and said "oh yeah"

...

tree_, I don't think you're up for the fight you're gonna get if you talk about politics with your father-in-law. It's also going to piss off your wife. Just don't talk for the whole visit.

[Strat]

man alive. He just lost in the courts again re: his border wall.

WINNING

[4/5]

man alive. He just lost in the courts again re: his border wall.

WINNING

I mean I'm tired of winning. You?

[Strat]

I do know that nothing will ever be the same. If he loses, the chaos and division will only grow.

I think its time i move.

[doug rr]

I do know that nothing will ever be the same. If he loses, the chaos and division will only grow.

I think its time i move.

take your american dollars to vancouver bc...follow me

[Birds in Hell]

Josh likes his policies, not the man. Which is weird because you just know Trump has been jerked off during a massage. Also, I haven't heard Trump articulate one single policy goal for his second term other than tearing down Obamacare I guess. Nevermind that after 4 years nobody has any clue what his much better healthcare plan would even be.

I don't think this is necessarily true. Maybe my read on this is wrong, but I think the thing that PHATJ - and many other Trump supporters - really identify with is his total rejection of the leftist/progressive values which have otherwise been pretty pervasive over the last fifty or so years.

Maybe rejection is the wrong word as I don't think it's a conscious thing with Trump, he's just blasting ahead without much reflection and his actions flow from his innate presumptions and prejudices, like someone's least pleasant uncle from 1961.

I'd wager it's the same with people like tree_'s father-in-law; the talk of policies and economic factors is just a smokescreen, at heart it's just about the vibe. That's why focusing on stats and graphs is a total waste of time, it will never make the slightest dent.

[knee tunes]

Look out everyone

[Rob]

For some reason my phone won’t let me quote birds in hell, but:


I agree that a lot of it is a rejection of lefty politics, and it has to be noted that conservative media in America has, for a generation now, been primarily a revolt against those America-hating liberals. Lots of people want to argue that the left goes too far, but the right in America settled on hating the other side as a matter of policy, and not really focusing on any solutions or alternate ideas. So instead of some conservative who pushes market reform or some capitalist idea, we get “they (liberals) hate America and want to take your freedom away, government sucks...” (and surprise, our government really sucks balls now)

I guess what I’m saying is that there’s a lot of truth in your post, but the “radical left” is not responsible for the state of republicans & conservatives. Not saying that’s what you mean, but it’s hard to know the tone of the post. And while today there may be a few “progressive” tactics and ideas that people can genuinely disagree about, there has not been a radical left agenda in America in any of our lifetimes, at least not enough to justify the fear of the left. I’m sure the 1960s seemed crazy to many, but that’s the last time and most of those ideas are mainstream now. Some people will cite college campuses over the years, but those are always progressive and those people don’t stay young. This revolt against the left seems like it will crush the right.

[verb_to_trust]

Josh just pm'd me and said he's going to weigh in on this after his neighborhood block party wraps up tonight.

[Birds in Hell]

I guess what I’m saying is that there’s a lot of truth in your post, but the “radical left” is not responsible for the state of republicans & conservatives. Not saying that’s what you mean, but it’s hard to know the tone of the post.

That's not exactly what I'm saying, and I appreciate I no doubt have a very different view of this as I'm not American.

Trump appeals to people who (accurately) see progressive values as having been socially ascendant in the previous few decades. Those values are high status, and conservative (in the broadest possible term) very much low status. Progressive views are understood as being a natural relationship with intelligence, education and compassion. How often are conservative values pilloried as being based primarily in ignorance, as if such values could be banged out of people's heads if only they weren't such selfish dummies?

Those high status view-holders, as evidenced repeatedly on RM and everywhere else in public life, relentlessly mock and shame those who hold low status opinions. What Trump represents is a kind of lightning rod for that mockery and derision - he is appealing primarily because he drives progressives absolutely insane. No amount of carefully-framed data is going to change that viewpoint, it's something far more primal. The low status voters feel marginalised - and they're right, they are. They hold views that can't easily be expressed in polite company. Now, however, there's a guy in the White House who has no grasp of those high status values, his views and beliefs are rooted in those low status opinions.

Trump was right when he said he could shoot someone in the middle of the street and people will still vote for him, because so long as he continues to drive the right people crazy, nothing else matters.

[BurtReynolds]

Many view Trump as a bull in the China shop. He was a wrench thrown in the works of the machine. His actual policies or competence or personality doesn't matter that much. He delayed the plan by a few years, which is the best anyone can really hope for. Many were hoping he'd last longer, but he seems too old and tired to do much even if he did manage to win.

Unfortunately, as with anything else thrown against the system, it will only strengthen it in the long run. Once the dems are back in, the system will take steps to insure such a wrench can't be thrown in "progress" again. The republicans might respond with a return to neocon centrism, or they might not. It doesn't really matter. Their only role is to act as a decelerator. They aren't really "conservative". Nothing is.

[Wendy Carlos's Twin]

I guess what I’m saying is that there’s a lot of truth in your post, but the “radical left” is not responsible for the state of republicans & conservatives. Not saying that’s what you mean, but it’s hard to know the tone of the post.

That's not exactly what I'm saying, and I appreciate I no doubt have a very different view of this as I'm not American.

Trump appeals to people who (accurately) see progressive values as having been socially ascendant in the previous few decades. Those values are high status, and conservative (in the broadest possible term) very much low status. Progressive views are understood as being a natural relationship with intelligence, education and compassion. How often are conservative values pilloried as being based primarily in ignorance, as if such values could be banged out of people's heads if only they weren't such selfish dummies?

Those high status view-holders, as evidenced repeatedly on RM and everywhere else in public life, relentlessly mock and shame those who hold low status opinions. What Trump represents is a kind of lightning rod for that mockery and derision - he is appealing primarily because he drives progressives absolutely insane. No amount of carefully-framed data is going to change that viewpoint, it's something far more primal. The low status voters feel marginalised - and they're right, they are. They hold views that can't easily be expressed in polite company. Now, however, there's a guy in the White House who has no grasp of those high status values, his views and beliefs are rooted in those low status opinions.

Trump was right when he said he could shoot someone in the middle of the street and people will still vote for him, because so long as he continues to drive the right people crazy, nothing else matters.

Right, but it's all puffing. He is ultimately offering nothing to those he panders to and the only person he truly cares about helping is himself. It's a classic con job - a bait and switch. That drives liberals crazy more than his (lack of) values does. The fact that American conversatives are so stupid, they put an idiot like this in charge because they love his rhetoric but they cannot see the sad irony that they are going to get screwed harder than anyone else. And in the end, everybody suffers.

[Birds in Hell]

I guess what I’m saying is that there’s a lot of truth in your post, but the “radical left” is not responsible for the state of republicans & conservatives. Not saying that’s what you mean, but it’s hard to know the tone of the post.

That's not exactly what I'm saying, and I appreciate I no doubt have a very different view of this as I'm not American.

Trump appeals to people who (accurately) see progressive values as having been socially ascendant in the previous few decades. Those values are high status, and conservative (in the broadest possible term) very much low status. Progressive views are understood as being a natural relationship with intelligence, education and compassion. How often are conservative values pilloried as being based primarily in ignorance, as if such values could be banged out of people's heads if only they weren't such selfish dummies?

Those high status view-holders, as evidenced repeatedly on RM and everywhere else in public life, relentlessly mock and shame those who hold low status opinions. What Trump represents is a kind of lightning rod for that mockery and derision - he is appealing primarily because he drives progressives absolutely insane. No amount of carefully-framed data is going to change that viewpoint, it's something far more primal. The low status voters feel marginalised - and they're right, they are. They hold views that can't easily be expressed in polite company. Now, however, there's a guy in the White House who has no grasp of those high status values, his views and beliefs are rooted in those low status opinions.

Trump was right when he said he could shoot someone in the middle of the street and people will still vote for him, because so long as he continues to drive the right people crazy, nothing else matters.

Right, but it's all puffing. He is ultimately offering nothing to those he panders to and the only person he truly cares about helping is himself. It's a classic con job - a bait and switch. That drives liberals crazy more than his (lack of) values does. The fact that American conversatives are so stupid, they put an idiot like this in charge because they love his rhetoric but they cannot see the sad irony that they are going to get screwed harder than anyone else. And in the end, everybody suffers.

100% right, but I also don't think it matters one bit.

It only matters how he makes them feel.

[BurtReynolds]

"Why do they vote against their self interests?" Is such a bullshit argument stemming from liberal smugness. Red State conservatives do not have many allies, and the left does not in fact, represent their interests. Is trump a fraud? Of course he is. So are RINO republicans. So are woke progressives. None of these people represent them.

[BurtReynolds]

To their credit, they do have less tolerance for failure, and constantly cycle out republicans who are all talk (something the left hasn't done much of). The problem is all the replacement are frauds. There is an endless supply.

[tragabigzanda]

The whole RINO/DINO thing is generally laughable (excepting rare instances of candidates actually running for the opposite party). Party purity tests are extremely damaging for all stakeholders.

I’m more interested in your first point, Burt, about red state conservatives not having real representation. Is a rural conservative whose livelihood is dependent on fossil fuel extraction better represented by a Republican who furthers that commerce? Or by a Democrat who looks to transition a local energy utility to renewable energy?

I believe the answer is “both.” Which goes back to party purity tests, and my ongoing bible thumping for moderate bipartisan solutions. It’s not too much for constituents to ask their leaders to work across the aisle to find workable solutions, and that sort of cooperation has been variously damaged by Trump, McConnell, Pelosi, AOC, and more.

I miss leaders like Max Baucus and Al Franken, and think highly of Lisa Murkowski.