The Protest Thread

[epilogue]

He is a boy. He's a lot of other things, too. Any of which you could use to describe him. Your word choice is intentional, Burt.

[Strat]

That does look like him, yes. Thank you for offering anything to substantiate macphisto's post. I appreciate it.

As to the rest of your post... again, whatever narrative you need.

I wasn't there but based on what I've seen from video evidence and from reading accounts of what happened, I'm not as sure as you are about the version of events you've presented. Maybe, once more comes out, we can have a better picture.

Either way, throwing plastic at an illegally armed instigator sure doesn't warrant a death sentence.

Yeah sure man he was just throwing a plastic bag at a guy. Yeah that's all the happened. Whatever narrative you need.

You're right, there was more to it. Specifically concerning the "guy" you're defending.

Ok. Your turn. Show me some sources.

You need me to cite a source to tell you that portraying a 17 year old vigilante illegally carrying an automatic weapon as just "a guy" is misleading?

I need you to post sources showing that the boy was in the wrong here and that a man simply "threw a bag at him" and nothing else. I need you to show me why it is wrong to fight back when being attacked/chased by a mob. Fuck I'll take eye witness testimony if nothing else, which, by the way, I also have.

"The boy" was in the wrong because he shouldn't have been carrying a gun. He shouldn't have been there in first place. He drove across state lines with a gun. Why? Do you really think he wasn't hoping to shoot someone? I don't know his mind but it's hard to believe he just really loves Wisconsin gas stations. But I can't prove that. It's just logical conjecture. So, you got me there!

He was in the wrong because killing people is wrong. And if the people he killed didn't have guns, then he could have and should have defended himself (which I fully admit he has the right to do) with something other than a gun. I can't imagine there are any links I could provide you that would change your mind on that.

I already said I wasn't there. The fact that you used the phrase "threw a bag at him" shows me that you've probably read all the same accounts that I've read. I'm happy to link them for you (it's outlets like CNN, the Chicago Sun-Times, USA Today, AP, Milwaukee Journal Sentinal, NPR, CBS, ABC News, etc) . But that wasn't a term I used in my post, so you got it from somewhere. If you've already read them, I doubt you'll read them again and change your mind.

You assert he was being chased by a mob. I haven't seen that. Unless we're defining mob as a few people. Then, yes he was being chased by "a mob." But that seems like a misleading characterization. More importantly, and I'm not seeing people talk about this, maybe you know and can fill me in, but why he was being chased? Why was he being "attacked."

I don't think it's just because. He's a civilian (encouraged by police to take action into his own hands) who approached people with a fucking gun. You've said yourself that if someone comes at you, they're gonna get it. Do you have such a lack of empathy for the these protesters that you so desperately despise to imagine that you might have at least that one thing in common with them? You tell me what you'd do if some kid came up to you strapped with an automatic weapon.

I don't have any eye witness testimony other than what's been reported standard news outlets. I wasn't there. I guess you were. So you tell me what actually happened, since you know.

You must've missed the account of the journalist (and his colleague) that was interviewing him just prior to the first shooting. He didnt approach anyone, the bald dude came up to him and tried to grab his gun. This was witnessed by the journalist (DC Caller maybe?)

He did exactly what was required from him by law- he attempted to remove himself from the altercation. The bald guy chased after him and pressed the issue. He did nothing to provoke, used no fighting words.

The journalist attempted to render aid and carried the bald guy to a vehicle to take him to the hospital ~100 yards away. He was punched several times for his efforts. So yeah, mob.

I did miss that account. Can you link me to it? I'd love to check it out.

https://dailycaller.com/2020/08/27/we-w ... -happened/

Hope you dont get hit by a paywall. Not the best publication, but what can you do.

Convince me to read something from something Tucker Carlson started. Is there any other article or eyewitness account?

[BurtReynolds]

contnued:

--- The fact that you used the phrase "threw a bag at him" shows me that you've probably read all the same accounts that I've read...

yes, but is that all he did? It's unlikely that the boy even saw him throw the bag while HE WAS RUNNING AWAY FROM HIM BECAUSE HE WAS BEING CHASED BY A VIOLENT FELON, who video shows was being aggressive before this altercation. You said he simply threw a bag at him. Is that all? Why did you leave the rest out?

----You assert he was being chased by a mob. I haven't seen that. Unless we're defining mob as a few people. Then, yes he was being chased by "a mob."

yes, that's a mob. Or use whatever word for it you want. "He was being chased by a few people". I say they were part of the mob, but I won't quibble.

---- I don't think it's just because. He's a civilian (encouraged by police to take action into his own hands) who approached people with a fucking gun.

Source? The sources I've seen say that he was approached. He did not approach anyone. I'm happy to look at any sources you could provide, but eyewitnesses and video makes it unlikely he was the instigator.

---- You've said yourself that if someone comes at you, they're gonna get it. Do you have such a lack of empathy for the these protesters that you so desperately despise to imagine that you might have at least that one thing in common with them? You tell me what you'd do if some kid came up to you strapped with an automatic weapon.

Who is talking about protesters? I'm talking about the violent looters that were attacking people and burning down buildings. Yes, there are protesters. LET ME MAKE IT CLEAR TO ALL THAT I AM MAKING A DISTINCTION BETWEEN PEACEFUL PROTESTERS AND VIOLENT RIOTERS. Empathy? If some kid came up to me strapped with a weapon, I should menace and attack him? What? He didn't even "come up to" anyone. He was came up to!

Yes, if someone "comes at me" (let me be clear: by this, I mena if someone attacks me), they're gonna get it. You think this is morally wrong somehow.

--- I don't have any eye witness testimony other than what's been reported standard news outlets

Well, that explains a lot.

[simple schoolboy]

That does look like him, yes. Thank you for offering anything to substantiate macphisto's post. I appreciate it.

As to the rest of your post... again, whatever narrative you need.

I wasn't there but based on what I've seen from video evidence and from reading accounts of what happened, I'm not as sure as you are about the version of events you've presented. Maybe, once more comes out, we can have a better picture.

Either way, throwing plastic at an illegally armed instigator sure doesn't warrant a death sentence.

Yeah sure man he was just throwing a plastic bag at a guy. Yeah that's all the happened. Whatever narrative you need.

You're right, there was more to it. Specifically concerning the "guy" you're defending.

Ok. Your turn. Show me some sources.

You need me to cite a source to tell you that portraying a 17 year old vigilante illegally carrying an automatic weapon as just "a guy" is misleading?

I need you to post sources showing that the boy was in the wrong here and that a man simply "threw a bag at him" and nothing else. I need you to show me why it is wrong to fight back when being attacked/chased by a mob. Fuck I'll take eye witness testimony if nothing else, which, by the way, I also have.

"The boy" was in the wrong because he shouldn't have been carrying a gun. He shouldn't have been there in first place. He drove across state lines with a gun. Why? Do you really think he wasn't hoping to shoot someone? I don't know his mind but it's hard to believe he just really loves Wisconsin gas stations. But I can't prove that. It's just logical conjecture. So, you got me there!

He was in the wrong because killing people is wrong. And if the people he killed didn't have guns, then he could have and should have defended himself (which I fully admit he has the right to do) with something other than a gun. I can't imagine there are any links I could provide you that would change your mind on that.

I already said I wasn't there. The fact that you used the phrase "threw a bag at him" shows me that you've probably read all the same accounts that I've read. I'm happy to link them for you (it's outlets like CNN, the Chicago Sun-Times, USA Today, AP, Milwaukee Journal Sentinal, NPR, CBS, ABC News, etc) . But that wasn't a term I used in my post, so you got it from somewhere. If you've already read them, I doubt you'll read them again and change your mind.

You assert he was being chased by a mob. I haven't seen that. Unless we're defining mob as a few people. Then, yes he was being chased by "a mob." But that seems like a misleading characterization. More importantly, and I'm not seeing people talk about this, maybe you know and can fill me in, but why he was being chased? Why was he being "attacked."

I don't think it's just because. He's a civilian (encouraged by police to take action into his own hands) who approached people with a fucking gun. You've said yourself that if someone comes at you, they're gonna get it. Do you have such a lack of empathy for the these protesters that you so desperately despise to imagine that you might have at least that one thing in common with them? You tell me what you'd do if some kid came up to you strapped with an automatic weapon.

I don't have any eye witness testimony other than what's been reported standard news outlets. I wasn't there. I guess you were. So you tell me what actually happened, since you know.

You must've missed the account of the journalist (and his colleague) that was interviewing him just prior to the first shooting. He didnt approach anyone, the bald dude came up to him and tried to grab his gun. This was witnessed by the journalist (DC Caller maybe?)

He did exactly what was required from him by law- he attempted to remove himself from the altercation. The bald guy chased after him and pressed the issue. He did nothing to provoke, used no fighting words.

The journalist attempted to render aid and carried the bald guy to a vehicle to take him to the hospital ~100 yards away. He was punched several times for his efforts. So yeah, mob.

I did miss that account. Can you link me to it? I'd love to check it out.

https://dailycaller.com/2020/08/27/we-w ... -happened/

Hope you dont get hit by a paywall. Not the best publication, but what can you do.

I appreciate it. But given that it's the Daily Caller, I think you can understand my taking it with a grain of salt. But I do appreciate the link.

Understood. All the righty outlets flooded this event with reporters. Maybe left outlets should consider showing up.

Townhall's Julio Rosas witnessed the 2nd shooting. [tweet]https://twitter.com/Julio_Rosas11[/tweet]

Lots of anarchist citizen reporters too, but their bias is even more obvious.

[epilogue]

And I totally see what you mean about murder. I was referring to the legal sense, not the moral sense. And I tend to be more on your side of the argument. I'm not a big fan of "morality" as such. "There's no right and wrong / But I'm sure there's good and bad" kind of thing.

So, I'll take that back. But I still hold that he shouldn't have had a gun. He shouldn't have traveled to a protest to play vigilante with an assault weapon that he (apparently?) wasn't legally allowed to carry. He shouldn't have brandished the gun. He shouldn't have escalated an already shitty situation. He shouldn't have broken curfew (this is bullshit because the curfew was bullshit but technically it's another offense and relevant because it was the very basis for police to arrest protesters). He also shouldn't have fled the state after the shootings.

The notion that he is essentially a martyr who took action because Democrats would not let police do their jobs is a bullshit narrative resting on a racist belief, deeply rooted in American history, that white people must sometimes break the law to enforce it.

[Strat]

Burts fascination with the mob sure is something though.

Burt, nightly fever dreams about antifa...yea?

[Strat]

You dont have to answer that. I used to have regular dreams about killer clowns from outer space.

[BurtReynolds]

Burt, i get your views. You have been vocal about it. Its your plea, and if you want to live in this world, ey its on you.

For me, its super sad. A boy with a gun on a riot. Killing people. If the other guy had a gun, also super sad. And i dont believe in killing people as a form of vengeance or justice.

But anway, i know i wont change your views so its fine. Im just posting here.

This wasn't a case of vengeance. Justice is an amorphous term. I'm not talking about that. You misunderstand me.

Do you agree with durden that killing someone in self defense is morally wrong?

[BurtReynolds]

Burts fascination with the mob sure is something though.

Burt, nightly fever dreams about antifa...yea?

man... he was attacked by at least four people, one armed with a gun...and it was clearly going to be a lot more if he was unarmed...

I don't know how to reach you, man. You claimed he was a militia thug with no evidence, yet you criticize me constantly for showing an actual mob doing mob things. Do you really not see a mob?

[BurtReynolds]

You dont have to answer that. I used to have regular dreams about killer clowns from outer space.

What do you think happened here? Please give sources for that where you can.

[Strat]

Burts fascination with the mob sure is something though.

Burt, nightly fever dreams about antifa...yea?

man... he was attacked by at least four people, one armed with a gun...and it was clearly going to be a lot more if he was unarmed...

I don't know how to reach you, man. You claimed he was a militia thug with no evidence, yet you criticize me constantly for showing an actual mob doing mob things. Do you really not see a mob?

I haven't claimed anything.

[surfndestroy]

A meme in my Instagram feed just came up that is very fitting for this thread.

"US politics to an outsider is like walking in on an argument about how to best punch babies. People expect you to pick a side, but you just stand there wondering why they're punching babies."

[Strat]

You dont have to answer that. I used to have regular dreams about killer clowns from outer space.

What do you think happened here? Please give sources for that where you can.

I have no idea. ANd im not really here to have a serious conversation about it because its pointless.

All i know is angry little white boy wanted to go play army and he made some bad choices and now he is gonna have to pay for it and live with it the rest of his life.

[BurtReynolds]

You dont have to answer that. I used to have regular dreams about killer clowns from outer space.

What do you think happened here? Please give sources for that where you can.

I have no idea. ANd im not really here to have a serious conversation about it because its pointless.

All i know is angry little white boy wanted to go play army and he made some bad choices and now he is gonna have to pay for it and live with it the rest of his life.

you have no idea? None? Have you watched any of the videos? I don't know why you just default to this ad hominem every single time. As far as I can tell you've never made a real argument in any thread here. You just make angry white boy posts against Trump and clap like a seal when other people actually make good arguments against him. You contribute nothing but snide personal attacks and blind anger.

[simple schoolboy]

That does look like him, yes. Thank you for offering anything to substantiate macphisto's post. I appreciate it.

As to the rest of your post... again, whatever narrative you need.

I wasn't there but based on what I've seen from video evidence and from reading accounts of what happened, I'm not as sure as you are about the version of events you've presented. Maybe, once more comes out, we can have a better picture.

Either way, throwing plastic at an illegally armed instigator sure doesn't warrant a death sentence.

Yeah sure man he was just throwing a plastic bag at a guy. Yeah that's all the happened. Whatever narrative you need.

You're right, there was more to it. Specifically concerning the "guy" you're defending.

Ok. Your turn. Show me some sources.

You need me to cite a source to tell you that portraying a 17 year old vigilante illegally carrying an automatic weapon as just "a guy" is misleading?

I need you to post sources showing that the boy was in the wrong here and that a man simply "threw a bag at him" and nothing else. I need you to show me why it is wrong to fight back when being attacked/chased by a mob. Fuck I'll take eye witness testimony if nothing else, which, by the way, I also have.

"The boy" was in the wrong because he shouldn't have been carrying a gun. He shouldn't have been there in first place. He drove across state lines with a gun. Why? Do you really think he wasn't hoping to shoot someone? I don't know his mind but it's hard to believe he just really loves Wisconsin gas stations. But I can't prove that. It's just logical conjecture. So, you got me there!

He was in the wrong because killing people is wrong. And if the people he killed didn't have guns, then he could have and should have defended himself (which I fully admit he has the right to do) with something other than a gun. I can't imagine there are any links I could provide you that would change your mind on that.

I already said I wasn't there. The fact that you used the phrase "threw a bag at him" shows me that you've probably read all the same accounts that I've read. I'm happy to link them for you (it's outlets like CNN, the Chicago Sun-Times, USA Today, AP, Milwaukee Journal Sentinal, NPR, CBS, ABC News, etc) . But that wasn't a term I used in my post, so you got it from somewhere. If you've already read them, I doubt you'll read them again and change your mind.

You assert he was being chased by a mob. I haven't seen that. Unless we're defining mob as a few people. Then, yes he was being chased by "a mob." But that seems like a misleading characterization. More importantly, and I'm not seeing people talk about this, maybe you know and can fill me in, but why he was being chased? Why was he being "attacked."

I don't think it's just because. He's a civilian (encouraged by police to take action into his own hands) who approached people with a fucking gun. You've said yourself that if someone comes at you, they're gonna get it. Do you have such a lack of empathy for the these protesters that you so desperately despise to imagine that you might have at least that one thing in common with them? You tell me what you'd do if some kid came up to you strapped with an automatic weapon.

I don't have any eye witness testimony other than what's been reported standard news outlets. I wasn't there. I guess you were. So you tell me what actually happened, since you know.

You must've missed the account of the journalist (and his colleague) that was interviewing him just prior to the first shooting. He didnt approach anyone, the bald dude came up to him and tried to grab his gun. This was witnessed by the journalist (DC Caller maybe?)

He did exactly what was required from him by law- he attempted to remove himself from the altercation. The bald guy chased after him and pressed the issue. He did nothing to provoke, used no fighting words.

The journalist attempted to render aid and carried the bald guy to a vehicle to take him to the hospital ~100 yards away. He was punched several times for his efforts. So yeah, mob.

I did miss that account. Can you link me to it? I'd love to check it out.

https://dailycaller.com/2020/08/27/we-w ... -happened/

Hope you dont get hit by a paywall. Not the best publication, but what can you do.

Convince me to read something from something Tucker Carlson started. Is there any other article or eyewitness account?

The reporter discussed in the article is the principal witness quoted in the court documents. Presumably they will testify under oath if this goes to trial.

They could be full of shit, but this is probably one of the few firsthand accounts you'll read.

[epilogue]

And I totally see what you mean about murder. I was referring to the legal sense, not the moral sense. And I tend to be more on your side of the argument. I'm not a big fan of "morality" as such. "There's no right and wrong / But I'm sure there's good and bad" kind of thing.

So, I'll take that back. But I still hold that he shouldn't have had a gun. He shouldn't have traveled to a protest to play vigilante with an assault weapon that he (apparently?) wasn't legally allowed to carry. He shouldn't have brandished the gun. He shouldn't have escalated an already shitty situation. He shouldn't have broken curfew (this is bullshit because the curfew was bullshit but technically it's another offense and relevant because it was the very basis for police to arrest protesters). He also shouldn't have fled the state after the shootings.

The notion that he is essentially a martyr who took action because Democrats would not let police do their jobs is a bullshit narrative resting on a racist belief, deeply rooted in American history, that white people must sometimes break the law to enforce it.

Sorry, I hit send on this before I was ready... rather than edit to include the quotes, I'll just say that Slate has an article about this that really sums up how I feel and what it feels like the right is saying. The link is below. Some of the article is already in what I previously posted but without quotes. Again, posted too quickly. I'm trying to cook dinner and do this at the same time.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/202 ... house.html

I'll leave it at that.

Clearly, Burt isn't gonna listen to anything I have to say. We aren't gonna change each other's minds. So I'll bow out and let him have his thread back.

[Strat]

You dont have to answer that. I used to have regular dreams about killer clowns from outer space.

What do you think happened here? Please give sources for that where you can.

I have no idea. ANd im not really here to have a serious conversation about it because its pointless.

All i know is angry little white boy wanted to go play army and he made some bad choices and now he is gonna have to pay for it and live with it the rest of his life.

you have no idea? None? Have you watched any of the videos? I don't know why you just default to this ad hominem every single time. As far as I can tell you've never made a real argument in any thread here. You just make angry white boy posts against Trump and clap like a seal when other people actually make good arguments against him. You contribute nothing but snide personal attacks and blind anger.

You got me burt!!!!

[BurtReynolds]

You dont have to answer that. I used to have regular dreams about killer clowns from outer space.

What do you think happened here? Please give sources for that where you can.

I have no idea. ANd im not really here to have a serious conversation about it because its pointless.

All i know is angry little white boy wanted to go play army and he made some bad choices and now he is gonna have to pay for it and live with it the rest of his life.

you have no idea? None? Have you watched any of the videos? I don't know why you just default to this ad hominem every single time. As far as I can tell you've never made a real argument in any thread here. You just make angry white boy posts against Trump and clap like a seal when other people actually make good arguments against him. You contribute nothing but snide personal attacks and blind anger.

Don't get me wrong. Saying "I don't know" is a good default position, and one people should take more often, but that's not what you've done here. You've already convicted him in your mind.

[BurtReynolds]

You got me burt!!!!

ok, guy.

[Strat]

You dont have to answer that. I used to have regular dreams about killer clowns from outer space.

What do you think happened here? Please give sources for that where you can.

I have no idea. ANd im not really here to have a serious conversation about it because its pointless.

All i know is angry little white boy wanted to go play army and he made some bad choices and now he is gonna have to pay for it and live with it the rest of his life.

you have no idea? None? Have you watched any of the videos? I don't know why you just default to this ad hominem every single time. As far as I can tell you've never made a real argument in any thread here. You just make angry white boy posts against Trump and clap like a seal when other people actually make good arguments against him. You contribute nothing but snide personal attacks and blind anger.

I find it completely pointless to have discussions with you. I learned that a long fucking time ago. I like reading other peoples opinions. You offer nothing of merit to me. Sorry.

I think the kid is a fucking moron and an asshole for showing up with a gun. Fuck him. Okay? Is that okay of an opinion?