The Protest Thread

[elliseamos]

Hurricane Laura did what racist politicians wouldn't.

Pray for the statues.

I'd post a video, but that's banned now.

Look it up.

Confederate statues are dying out there people.

Hurricanes are taking our history! Let's nuke'em!

[simple schoolboy]

One could argue that a white dude walking around these protests with a gun for all to see is in and of itself the instigation. But then one would be chastised for not respecting his rights

He's not responsible for the delusions of those with extensive criminal histories.

[elliseamos]

One could argue that a white dude walking around these protests with a gun for all to see is in and of itself the instigation. But then one would be chastised for not respecting his rights

He's not responsible for the delusions of those with extensive criminal histories.

he's criminally charged now. So let's drop this character distraction.

[E.H. Ruddock]

One could argue that a white dude walking around these protests with a gun for all to see is in and of itself the instigation. But then one would be chastised for not respecting his rights

correctly. and no, that's not instigation. The instigation is coming from the people doing the actual threatening and literally taking violent actions.

Like, ACTUAL violent actions, not hypothetical ones.

But he knew that was already happening. He chose to go there knowing people may and probably would be a threat to him. So why go?

[BurtReynolds]

Burt, would you do what he did? Go to a protest that may be volatile, with a gun, and walk around with it? If so, what would be your motivation? Genuinely curious. And if not, why not?

If I felt that innocent people or their livelihoods were in danger and I felt I could stop it, yeah, I like to think I'd do something. Maybe I wouldn't. Maybe I'm a total keyboard warrior coward. Maybe I'm the worst person in the world. What difference does it make what I'd do? Are we talking about me?

[simple schoolboy]

One could argue that a white dude walking around these protests with a gun for all to see is in and of itself the instigation. But then one would be chastised for not respecting his rights

He's not responsible for the delusions of those with extensive criminal histories.

he's criminally charged now. So let's drop this character distraction.

Weird that no one with a clean record felt the need to jump him. Are these protests disproportionately populated by justice-involved individuals?

[BurtReynolds]

One could argue that a white dude walking around these protests with a gun for all to see is in and of itself the instigation. But then one would be chastised for not respecting his rights

correctly. and no, that's not instigation. The instigation is coming from the people doing the actual threatening and literally taking violent actions.

Like, ACTUAL violent actions, not hypothetical ones.

But he knew that was already happening. He chose to go there knowing people may and probably would be a threat to him. So why go?

Because again, he felt that he could do something to stop people from burning down the city, and went even though it was dangerous? Is that inherently wrong?

Again, maybe he went down there just to shoot people, and maybe all the videos posted are complete fabrications. But do you think its at least possible that its not the case that he went there to kill people? Forget the lack of proof for your argument and proof of mine. Do you think its concievable?

[E.H. Ruddock]

Burt, would you do what he did? Go to a protest that may be volatile, with a gun, and walk around with it? If so, what would be your motivation? Genuinely curious. And if not, why not?

If I felt that innocent people or their livelihoods were in danger and I felt I could stop it, yeah, I like to think I'd do something. Maybe I wouldn't. Maybe I'm a total keyboard warrior coward. Maybe I'm the worst person in the world. What difference does it make what I'd do? Are we talking about me?

We're talking about a choice someone made that you passionately agree with. I thought maybe you could put yourself in his shoes

[E.H. Ruddock]

One could argue that a white dude walking around these protests with a gun for all to see is in and of itself the instigation. But then one would be chastised for not respecting his rights

correctly. and no, that's not instigation. The instigation is coming from the people doing the actual threatening and literally taking violent actions.

Like, ACTUAL violent actions, not hypothetical ones.

But he knew that was already happening. He chose to go there knowing people may and probably would be a threat to him. So why go?

Because again, he felt that he could do something to stop people from burning down the city, and went even though it was dangerous? Is that inherently wrong?

Again, maybe he went down there just to shoot people, and maybe all the videos posted are complete fabrications. But do you think its at least possible that its not the case that he went there to kill people? Forget the lack of proof for your argument and proof of mine. Do you think its concievable?

So are you for disbanding the police, then? If gun owning citizens can handle things, why not? I for one am not ready to let a 17 year old with no training do that.

[BurtReynolds]

I mean, you seem to be making the argument that because he willingly went into a dangerous situation filled with violent rioters to protect innocent civilian property with a gun, that he was not only dumb to do it, but that he was also morally wrong for doing it, and is thus morally and legally responsible for the deaths of the people who attacked him. Is this correct? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here.

[BurtReynolds]

One could argue that a white dude walking around these protests with a gun for all to see is in and of itself the instigation. But then one would be chastised for not respecting his rights

correctly. and no, that's not instigation. The instigation is coming from the people doing the actual threatening and literally taking violent actions.

Like, ACTUAL violent actions, not hypothetical ones.

But he knew that was already happening. He chose to go there knowing people may and probably would be a threat to him. So why go?

Because again, he felt that he could do something to stop people from burning down the city, and went even though it was dangerous? Is that inherently wrong?

Again, maybe he went down there just to shoot people, and maybe all the videos posted are complete fabrications. But do you think its at least possible that its not the case that he went there to kill people? Forget the lack of proof for your argument and proof of mine. Do you think its concievable?

So are you for disbanding the police, then? If gun owning citizens can handle things, why not? I for one am not ready to let a 17 year old with no training do that.

Do we have a choice? Because right now in a lot of situations, including this one, there are no police, so yeah I'm ok with community policing, especially when police aren't around.

[E.H. Ruddock]

Jesus christ dude. I'm not arguing anything about the self defense or the people who attacked him. I'm arguing that it wasn't smart for him to be there. He's fucking 17 and probably never been in a high stress high adrenaline situation with a gun. I'm just saying it's fucking dumb. But you seem to think it's fine. Which is... weird.

[BurtReynolds]

Jesus christ dude. I'm not arguing anything about the self defense or the people who attacked him. I'm arguing that it wasn't smart for him to be there. He's fucking 17 and probably never been in a high stress high adrenaline situation with a gun. I'm just saying it's fucking dumb. But you seem to think it's fine. Which is... weird.

Ok that's fine. Maybe he was stupid for going down there. I don't feel like arguing about it. But I've yet to see anything that says he was morally wrong to be there. HUGE difference.

[E.H. Ruddock]

Well, people who know the law better than you or I apparently disagree.

[E.H. Ruddock]

Well, at least better than me. Seems a lot of you are highly educated in many fields

[BurtReynolds]

Legality and morality are different things. I don't have a problem with him being arrested and investigated. Of course you do that. I'll leave the legal stuff to the others who know the law. But at least right now, there is nothing to suggest that he went there to murder people, and much to suggest he didn't, yet so many here have already completely made up their minds that he is guilty, and as far as I can tell, their opinions are based on absolutely nothing except preconceived notions.

[elliseamos]

Weird that no one with a clean record felt the need to jump him.

we know of the 3 that got shot. Was that everyone chasing after him? Looked like more than 3 to me, but I feel it better to ignore this strawman.

Are these protests disproportionately populated by justice-involved individuals?

again, 3 people, and the kid who shot them was illegally carrying that rifle at the time. This is a strawman and should be dropped now.

It would also be nice if sheriffs took the same approach to protesters and property as they did bison:

"A herd of bison broke down the gate at a feedlot in Nebraska and have been running wild ever since. Five of the 125 animals have already been hit and killed by vehicles and a sixth was shot, the Omaha World-Herald reported. The owner has been scrambling to corral the animals and has hired a Kansas company to come in and wrangle them. Phelps County Sheriff Gene Samuelson is urging residents and farm owners to leave the bison alone. “Let this company do what they were hired to do. They will not need any assistance, so please refrain from forming search parties and taking any action,” he said."

[simple schoolboy]

I mean, you seem to be making the argument that because he willingly went into a dangerous situation filled with violent rioters to protect innocent civilian property with a gun, that he was not only dumb to do it, but that he was also morally wrong for doing it, and is thus morally and legally responsible for the deaths of the people who attacked him. Is this correct? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here.

Per his stated motivation, his principle interest was rendering aid (or to be cynical, a justification for wandering around the protest and see the sights and enjoy some social interactions). Defending property seemed secondary based on the full interview.

Still a dumb thing to do, but it seems to undermine claims that he was there to intimidate people. He was mostly wandering around asking people if they needed help. Fuck this guy, clearly.

Graphic Warning: You can see the first decedent from about 20 feet away, but nothing gory. Mods, is this okay? Otherwise most of his interview and interactions with protesters.

Spoiler: show

https://youtu.be/LGdGHBlBBMY

[BurtReynolds]

Weird that no one with a clean record felt the need to jump him.

we know of the 3 that got shot. Was that everyone chasing after him? Looked like more than 3 to me, but I feel it better to ignore this strawman.

Are these protests disproportionately populated by justice-involved individuals?

again, 3 people, and the kid who shot them was illegally carrying that rifle at the time. This is a strawman and should be dropped now.

It would also be nice if sheriffs took the same approach to protesters and property as they did bison:

"A herd of bison broke down the gate at a feedlot in Nebraska and have been running wild ever since. Five of the 125 animals have already been hit and killed by vehicles and a sixth was shot, the Omaha World-Herald reported. The owner has been scrambling to corral the animals and has hired a Kansas company to come in and wrangle them. Phelps County Sheriff Gene Samuelson is urging residents and farm owners to leave the bison alone. “Let this company do what they were hired to do. They will not need any assistance, so please refrain from forming search parties and taking any action,” he said."

3 out of 3 does lend credence to the idea that it's reasonable to assume that a lot of people there are not protesters, but thugs looking to hurt people and loot/burn shit (though one was definitely a hardcore leftist as far as I'm aware).

[simple schoolboy]

Weird that no one with a clean record felt the need to jump him.

we know of the 3 that got shot. Was that everyone chasing after him? Looked like more than 3 to me, but I feel it better to ignore this strawman.

Are these protests disproportionately populated by justice-involved individuals?

again, 3 people, and the kid who shot them was illegally carrying that rifle at the time. This is a strawman and should be dropped now.

It would also be nice if sheriffs took the same approach to protesters and property as they did bison:

"A herd of bison broke down the gate at a feedlot in Nebraska and have been running wild ever since. Five of the 125 animals have already been hit and killed by vehicles and a sixth was shot, the Omaha World-Herald reported. The owner has been scrambling to corral the animals and has hired a Kansas company to come in and wrangle them. Phelps County Sheriff Gene Samuelson is urging residents and farm owners to leave the bison alone. “Let this company do what they were hired to do. They will not need any assistance, so please refrain from forming search parties and taking any action,” he said."

Its not all clear he was carrying illegally. As a minor he can't carry dangerous weapons such as ninja stars, but if I understand it 16 year olds can open carry rifles in Wisconsin.

I believe only 1 other individual made contact with him, and I'm unsure if they have been identified.