Lightning Bolt: the official album thread

[harmless]

I get the dislike for cheesiness but I always had a hard time understanding the criticism for earnestness. Is there a song some of you dislike because it's too earnest?

The same argument happens in poetry. 'Earnestness' and 'sentiment' is baulked at, and if everything isn't expressed in the subtlest, lightest of touches, or with a thick layer of irony, it'll have vast swathes of snide detractors.

Expectations regarding poetry seem to be pretty regional in design, in my experience. In the American Plains, for example, naturesque imagery and vaguely unsettling (but never gross or offensive) reference points go over really well. In the South, action and a sense of awe are what get you there.

Yeah, makes sense. America is much bigger than England so I guess those differences and contrasts of tastes and traditions are going to be starker and much more apparent, and I've not been published for long enough to get a great sense of what regional tastes are here, but there are definite differences in urban cities like London and more in-the-sticks countryside places. Some of those interests will crossover of course, just like music scenes. I think the London poetry scene comfortably crosses over into the London indie music scene fairly well, which has its positives and... well, obvious negatives as well. Middle-classness abounds.

[sward]

Somebody download Sirens off rdio asap. Can't get it in Canada I don't think.

[stupidmop]

Im downloading the app but im the uk so i dont know if itll work. Don't know how to record anything anyway. We gotta hurry before seatlle wakes up,

[Acidfuel]

Its very pop and very produced.........but eddie sounds amazing

[jtr101]

Somebody download Sirens off rdio asap. Can't get it in Canada I don't think.

Its a no go in Canada :-/

[harmless]

I'm signed in, but where do I find it?

[Acidfuel]

I'm signed in, but where do I find it?

serach " pearl jam sirens"

[Mirella]

do you think that glen hansard song, falling slowly falls into cheese category?? if sirens falls into this type of cheese I'm all in!!!

Definately that kind of quality cheezy. Good call!

groetjes,
Mirella

[stip]

Cheesiness is increasingly becoming a word I think needs to be defined with examples before being used.

In a broad sense, I think "cheesy" (or "corny," or any of its many synonyms) typically refers to something that feels emotionally phony despite the fact that it is manipulated and manufactured to be just the opposite. Think of those big Nashville ballads sung from the perspective of dads giving their daughters away to be married, or soldiers coming home from the war in pine boxes while the entire town of Pissville, Kentucy stands by saluting, unable to decide if their tears are tears of grief or tears of pure American pride. Really just listen to a pop country station for a half hour and you'll have a pretty good understanding of the term.

To use a more relevant example, I would cite the difference between hearing "Future Days" with all the accompaniment from Wrigley, and hearing the unadorned inner-ear monitor thing that leaked, with just Eddie and the guitar. The latter is a naked and honest sentiment (albeit not a particularly exciting one, and not a particularly great song), but when you bring in the piano, the strings, etc. you get this feeling of someone behind the curtain really trying to sell that emotion, to put it across in a theatrical, unduly dramatic way. That's where the manipulation comes in, and I think where most people get off the wagon.

I'm not sure I agree with this, since it doesn't seem to account for something that is cheesy but still genuinely moving. Maybe what you describe is one end of a cheese continuum.

[Mike]

Germany isn't allowed to listen I guess.

[McParadigm]

I get the dislike for cheesiness but I always had a hard time understanding the criticism for earnestness. Is there a song some of you dislike because it's too earnest?

The same argument happens in poetry. 'Earnestness' and 'sentiment' is baulked at, and if everything isn't expressed in the subtlest, lightest of touches, or with a thick layer of irony, it'll have vast swathes of snide detractors.

Expectations regarding poetry seem to be pretty regional in design, in my experience. In the American Plains, for example, naturesque imagery and vaguely unsettling (but never gross or offensive) reference points go over really well. In the South, action and a sense of awe are what get you there.

Yeah, makes sense. America is much bigger than England so I guess those differences and contrasts of tastes and traditions are going to be starker and much more apparent, and I've not been published for long enough to get a great sense of what regional tastes are here, but there are definite differences in urban cities like London and more in-the-sticks countryside places. Some of those interests will crossover of course, just like music scenes. I think the London poetry scene comfortably crosses over into the London indie music scene fairly well, which has its positives and... well, obvious negatives as well. Middle-classness abounds.

I'm really only going off of what the lit journals in those areas lean towards, anyways....so that's a pretty big asterisk on any conclusions I've drawn.

[Jaeti]

"I know someday you'll have a beautiful life, I know you'll be a star in someone else's sky. But why, why, why can't it be mine?"

I have no idea if the lyrics of Sirens will be in the same vein as Black. Obviously if they are, they're a product of Eddie reaching for feelings of anguish that he presumably isn't feeling these days. So in that sense, sure, it's risky to try to write another tortured love song when in fact he's rather happily in love.

But, still, if one pretends Black never appeared on Ten and was instead written twenty years into their career, I don't think it's that hard to imagine journalists (especially those who've watched the band age and evolve) initially hearing it as "cheesy", even though I still don't think we have a good grip on just what that means. Don't get me wrong, I'm plenty nervous about Sirens making me cringe in all the ways, and more, that some people of the who've heard it have.

But hope is not lost. "Cheesy", in general, is probably a negative. But what if instead it's "melodramatic"? Black is absolutely melodramatic, a 10 of 10 on that scale, but it's amazing. Sirens can't be that good, but if the band just fucking go for it, it could definitely still work.

[Jaeti]

"I know someday you'll have a beautiful life, I know you'll be a star in someone else's sky. But why, why, why can't it be mine?"

I have no idea if the lyrics of Sirens will be in the same vein as Black. Obviously if they are, they're a product of Eddie reaching for feelings of anguish that he presumably isn't feeling these days. So in that sense, sure, it's risky to try to write another tortured love song when in fact he's rather happily in love.

But, still, if one pretends Black never appeared on Ten and was instead written twenty years into their career, I don't think it's that hard to imagine journalists (especially those who've watched the band age and evolve) initially hearing it as "cheesy", even though I still don't think we have a good grip on just what that means. Don't get me wrong, I'm plenty nervous about Sirens making me cringe in all the ways, and more, that some people of the who've heard it have.

But hope is not lost. "Cheesy", in general, is probably a negative. But what if instead it's "melodramatic"? Black is absolutely melodramatic, a 10 of 10 on that scale, but it's amazing. Sirens can't be that good, but if the band just fucking go for it, it could definitely still work.

[stip]

I have to run to class for 3 hours. Someone better have captured sirens and made it available by the time I get back.

[Jaeti]

Double post, sorry.

[IlluminEddie]

Sirens is an excellent song. One of their best.

[harmless]

I'm signed in, but where do I find it?

serach " pearl jam sirens"

Na, it didn't work. I've signed into this thing called 'Rdio' but it seems like it covers a whole range of stuff, is it on a particular station?

[dimejinky99]

Sirens is out there???

Also cheese is unfair. One mans ementhal is another mans eezee cheeze aerosol

[ccanad]

OFFER TO SHARE BANNED OR COMMERCIALLY AVAILABLE MATERIAL DELETED. PLEASE DO NOT REPOST. - THE MANAGEMENT

[harmless]

Cheesiness is increasingly becoming a word I think needs to be defined with examples before being used.

In a broad sense, I think "cheesy" (or "corny," or any of its many synonyms) typically refers to something that feels emotionally phony despite the fact that it is manipulated and manufactured to be just the opposite. Think of those big Nashville ballads sung from the perspective of dads giving their daughters away to be married, or soldiers coming home from the war in pine boxes while the entire town of Pissville, Kentucy stands by saluting, unable to decide if their tears are tears of grief or tears of pure American pride. Really just listen to a pop country station for a half hour and you'll have a pretty good understanding of the term.

To use a more relevant example, I would cite the difference between hearing "Future Days" with all the accompaniment from Wrigley, and hearing the unadorned inner-ear monitor thing that leaked, with just Eddie and the guitar. The latter is a naked and honest sentiment (albeit not a particularly exciting one, and not a particularly great song), but when you bring in the piano, the strings, etc. you get this feeling of someone behind the curtain really trying to sell that emotion, to put it across in a theatrical, unduly dramatic way. That's where the manipulation comes in, and I think where most people get off the wagon.

I'm not sure I agree with this, since it doesn't seem to account for something that is cheesy but still genuinely moving. Maybe what you describe is one end of a cheese continuum.