How has the Trump phenomena changed you?

[McParadigm]

I need some of the acid you're taking, Burt.

I only get high on skepticism!

lol ok

[elliseamos]

The average Republican voter hasn't changed in twenty years except that they've woken up to the fact that the Republican party has sold them out repeatedly.

Democrats were content with that as long as they were generally getting their way, either not noticing their own leftward drift or hoping the other side wouldn't notice. Now they see the same right wingers, that they generally got along with until recently, as Nazis bringing about a global explosion of previously nonexisting fascism, mostly because people aren't ok with unchecked immigration.

Like I said, it's insane.

i dont think the average republican realizes they have been sold out. most i know embrace the party

Assuming this is true, Burt, they've woken up to it and feel inspired to double-down?

In your words, "they haven't change other than waking up to being sold out, repeatedly" and are voting with their party still? To double-down on being sold out again?

[surfndestroy]

The average Republican voter hasn't changed in twenty years except that they've woken up to the fact that the Republican party has sold them out repeatedly.

Democrats were content with that as long as they were generally getting their way, either not noticing their own leftward drift or hoping the other side wouldn't notice. Now they see the same right wingers, that they generally got along with until recently, as Nazis bringing about a global explosion of previously nonexisting fascism, mostly because people aren't ok with unchecked immigration.

Like I said, it's insane.

i dont think the average republican realizes they have been sold out. most i know embrace the party

Assuming this is true, Burt, they've woken up to it and feel inspired to double-down?

In your words, "they haven't change other than waking up to being sold out, repeatedly" and are voting with their party still? To double-down on being sold out again?

Is that how Black voters feel vis-à-vis voting Democrat?

[elliseamos]

The average Republican voter hasn't changed in twenty years except that they've woken up to the fact that the Republican party has sold them out repeatedly.

Democrats were content with that as long as they were generally getting their way, either not noticing their own leftward drift or hoping the other side wouldn't notice. Now they see the same right wingers, that they generally got along with until recently, as Nazis bringing about a global explosion of previously nonexisting fascism, mostly because people aren't ok with unchecked immigration.

Like I said, it's insane.

i dont think the average republican realizes they have been sold out. most i know embrace the party

Assuming this is true, Burt, they've woken up to it and feel inspired to double-down?

In your words, "they haven't change other than waking up to being sold out, repeatedly" and are voting with their party still? To double-down on being sold out again?

Is that how Black voters feel vis-à-vis voting Democrat?

I wouldn't know.

[Rob]

At this point I'm not sure that Republicans/conservatives/righties see very far past their fear of/contempt for the left. It's clearly consumed them and led to all sorts of bad political decisions. Mitch at least is clear eyed and knows the only defense here is to shore up the courts.

[BurtReynolds]

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[BurtReynolds]

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[Rob]

At this point I'm not sure that Democrats/progressives/lefties see very far past their fear of/contempt for the right. It's clearly consumed them and led to all sorts of bad political decisions.

I don't doubt the left is capable of the same mistakes/craziness, but the GOP is further along here. The left settled on the moderate guy in 2020, the right is fully in Trump's grip now.

[BurtReynolds]

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[elliseamos]

The average Republican voter hasn't changed in twenty years except that they've woken up to the fact that the Republican party has sold them out repeatedly.

I'll clarify: when I said Republican party, I meant the Republican Party as it existed around the Bush years. Many Republican voters realized that despite the rhetoric, the Republican establishment didn't really represent their positions, and got organized and took steps to vote them out, via the Tea Party, Trump, etc. They had some success, though IMO this problem can never really be fixed. Trump was probably the best hope, but he is a crazy idiot.

Voted them out? I seem to recall many multiple Rs packing up and leaving Washington on their own, if they weren't given cabinet positions or made AG. That's after McCain & Romney lost their bids for power with full R voter support. I'm still not seeing it, Burt, please forgive my lack of understanding. It seems like "the party" can do whatever it wants and the voters will go along with it.

I feel as though I should say explicitly that I don't believe democrat voters to be different in the sense that many groups under the tent are dismayed by "party" decisions but they continue to support the party based on the only available alternative. What seems odd from my perspective, and hence my "doubling down" comment, is that so many R voters so strongly believe that there is daylight between their interests and those of the D party. It's an annoying big tent.

[BurtReynolds]

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[washing machine]

I've been thinking about this thread a lot, and I'll say that the reaction to Trump's presidency has fundamentally rewired my brain for the better. In short, I reject the #resist movement to a slight degree more than I reject Trumpism itself.

Before Trump was elected, I would have considered myself a left leaning democrat. Heavy emphasis on social justice and environmental concerns were always on my mind while voting or thinking about politics. I had yet to really form any ideas about business or economy, but that's a different post.

Anyway, my rewiring started early on in his presidency when I read George Packer's The Unwinding: The Inner History of the New America. I think I found the book on some sort of doom & gloom type "ten books to read in order to cope with a Trump presidency" list somewhere. The book, paired with my own experiences growing up in a rural Texas town full of flawed, ignorant but mostly well meaning voters, helped me see that red versus blue is 100% bullshit. Identity politics are bullshit. Trump's Russia connections are probably overblown. The reasons people voted Trump into office are much more benign, IMO, and the left is attacking the wrong thing with such vigor that it makes them look inauthentic. It's all so divisive.

So as the presidency plodded on, I became more and more angry at both Trump and the reaction to Trump on the left. More specifically, I became angry and frustrated at how often the left misdirects their outrage at the wrong things. Cofveve, that innocent "30-40 feral hogs" tweet, all the "dog whistles", etc. I voted for Biden yesterday because I 100% do not think that Trump is a leader, but I'm walking away from the left with increasing speed over how terribly they have handled themselves reacting to both Trump and his supporters*.

Another thing happened personally during the Trump administration. I started a family. I got married, bought a house, had a baby, bought a new vehicle, advanced in my career, the whole nine. I started thinking about the future in a much more local way. If that sounds selfish, so be it. The fact is that now there are an entirely new set of real world concerns I bring to any discussion I have with people regarding how I vote or what I believe, and that sort of stuff is what the people in that Packer book are discussing, or what the people I grew up with in buttfuck TX are discussing. This #resist thing is so far out in left field that I can actually understand what would compel someone to vote for Trump. I think the media can see this too, but they are willfully playing up the divisiveness instead of being productive.

*Except for RM's treatment of PHATJ. That shit has been earned.

[Orpheus]

I've been thinking about this thread a lot, and I'll say that the reaction to Trump's presidency has fundamentally rewired my brain for the better. In short, I reject the #resist movement to a slight degree more than I reject Trumpism itself.

This #resist thing is so far out in left field that I can actually understand what would compel someone to vote for Trump.

I would love further explanation of this phenomenon because it is 100% stupid and nonsensical to me and always has been.

People are annoying yeah, but the best way to combat that is doing something harmful and stupid in response? How does that make any sense?

[washing machine]

I've been thinking about this thread a lot, and I'll say that the reaction to Trump's presidency has fundamentally rewired my brain for the better. In short, I reject the #resist movement to a slight degree more than I reject Trumpism itself.

This #resist thing is so far out in left field that I can actually understand what would compel someone to vote for Trump.

I would love further explanation of this phenomenon because it is 100% stupid and nonsensical to me and always has been.

People are annoying yeah, but the best way to combat that is doing something harmful and stupid in response? How does that make any sense?

Be more specific? I think I get you but not entirely sure.

[Mickey]

I would like to think that we can all care about our local, immediate, and material concerns while disdaining the hypercommodified #resistance grift-economy while also recognizing that the Trump administration's policies and messaging perpetuate and amplify racist and xenophobic worldviews while also recognizing that some of the people who voted for Trump are not intrinsically bad without also pinning this as an anti-left sentiment.

[BurtReynolds]

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[Mickey]

I would like to think that we can all care about our local, immediate, and material concerns while disdaining the hypercommodified #resistance grift-economy while also recognizing that the Trump administration's policies and messaging perpetuate and amplify racist and xenophobic worldviews while also recognizing that some of the people who voted for Trump are not intrinsically bad without also pinning this as an anti-left sentiment.

That's basically what he just said.

In important ways it is not, but I've never pegged you as a nuanced reader.

[BurtReynolds]

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[washing machine]

I would like to think that we can all care about our local, immediate, and material concerns while disdaining the hypercommodified #resistance grift-economy while also recognizing that the Trump administration's policies and messaging perpetuate and amplify racist and xenophobic worldviews while also recognizing that some of the people who voted for Trump are not intrinsically bad without also pinning this as an anti-left sentiment.

That's basically what he just said.

In important ways it is not, but I've never pegged you as a nuanced reader.

Curious what else you took from my post. Your post is an accurate representation of what I was trying to say.

[washing machine]

To be more clear, I am "anti-left" for how they have behaved as a whole, on both a leadership level and an activist (online or otherwise) level. I am not necessarily angry at the policies of the left (though I am definitely growing out of some of my own views on some of those policies.)