Ryan Adams

[verb_to_trust]

@contamination

There isn't one line to cross. There isn't even a checklist or whatever. Each case is different.

For me, the biggest difference is probably that I'd already fallen in love with Kind of Blue before I knew anything about Miles' personal life. Once I learned about all of that stuff it had an effect on me, too. In fact, the only two Davis albums I own or have listened to all the way through, even, are the two I heard before I knew about the personal stuff. If Miles Davis dropped a new album tomorrow, I'd skip that one, too.

Ryan is similar in that I haven't thrown out all of his stuff that I already own and have enjoyed in the past. I listen to his stuff much less often, for sure. And when I listen now, some of the artist's personal stuff comes through in ways that aren't great and can get to me. But not always. It's difficult but it's not impossible.

I can still appreciate the songs that I've always appreciated, even if there may be some new added context/subtext. The emotional resonance remains. Dear Chicago can still be a very personal song for me that is about what was going on when I first heard it, when a friend put it on a mix for me, etc. It doesn't have to bear the weight of Ryan's baggage.

Another thing that helps Kind of Blue is that there aren't lyrics. Maybe that shouldn't matter (and, surely, for others it doesn't) but it does matter to me.

With Ryan, the issue I have is not wanting to support or enable him. If Ryan ever decides to really apologize and take real steps to try and turn things around, to make amends in some way, to show real contrition and an effort to change/educate, then maybe I could see my way back to him. But as of now, I'm just not interested. He doesn't deserve my effort or my money.

The last major difference between the two that I'll bring up in this insanely long post is that Ryan hasn't ever written/recorded anything as brilliant as Kind of Blue. It's easier for me to walk away because Ryan doesn't mean to me what he means to others. The guy has two good records (no great or perfect records) and a handful of great songs. I fully admit that if his work meant more to me this would be a much harder decision/discussion.

I believe in separating the art from the artist. But I don't have to listen to Ryan Adams. He's not a necessary artist to me (like Sam Cooke, John Lennon, Michael Jackson, etc.). There is plenty of music out there that I think is better, that means more to me -- someone earlier mentioned Jason Isbell; he's a great example. So why stress about it? Why indulge? Why support a mediocre asshole? Ryan's not doing anything particularly groundbreaking or interesting to me. Others feel differently, and I'm not here to take that away from them. They can make their own decisions and I'm not about to pick a fight or judge others or go to the mattresses to make my case.

Hope that answers your question, contamination.

Tl,dr: durden gets to pick and choose who he cancels.

[epilogue]

Insightful and interesting as always, verb.

[Jorge]

Tl,dr: durden gets to pick and choose who he cancels.

We all do

[epilogue]

Tl,dr: durden gets to pick and choose who he cancels.

We all do

Nope, only me. And that's why I'm such a monster.

[verb_to_trust]

So, Anyways sounds so much like Damn, Sam. And the key harmonica immediately reminnds me of To Be The One.

[Jorge]

Tl,dr: durden gets to pick and choose who he cancels.

We all do

Nope, only me. And that's why I'm such a monster.

Like some of my absolute favorite art was made by people who are unrepentant shitbags and it doesn't matter, I can't untangle it from my life, its significance is too big. But I also fully understand (and have experienced) the desire to disengage from another artist for comparatively "minor" offenses, there's a shitload of super subjective factors at play there. This isn't a perfect point system, we are fickle, our personal relationship with art is as subjective as it gets. It's all pretty much valid I think

[Jorge]

Anyway like I said in the other thread I listened to this last night and thought it was good

[epilogue]

Tl,dr: durden gets to pick and choose who he cancels.

We all do

Nope, only me. And that's why I'm such a monster.

Like some of my absolute favorite art was made by people who are unrepentant shitbags and it doesn't matter, I can't untangle it from my life, its significance is too big. But I also fully understand (and have experienced) the desire to disengage from another artist for comparatively "minor" offenses, there's a shitload of super subjective factors at play there. This isn't a perfect point system, we are fickle, our personal relationship with art is as subjective as it gets. It's all pretty much valid I think

I totally agree. And I think that's the way it should be, really.

[verb_to_trust]

If this was released right as Ryan got cancelled maybe I would feel differently. But since 2020 has been about virtue signaling leaking into and taking over every area of life I'm just ready to enjoy this album at face value. I even might order the Wednesdays coffee mug on Ryan's website.

[bada]

Yeah I can't bring myself to listen to Louie CK anymore yet I have no issue listening to Michael Jackson. No idea why.

[contamination]

@contamination

There isn't one line to cross. There isn't even a checklist or whatever. Each case is different.

For me, the biggest difference is probably that I'd already fallen in love with Kind of Blue before I knew anything about Miles' personal life. Once I learned about all of that stuff it had an effect on me, too. In fact, the only two Davis albums I own or have listened to all the way through, even, are the two I heard before I knew about the personal stuff. If Miles Davis dropped a new album tomorrow, I'd skip that one, too.

Ryan is similar in that I haven't thrown out all of his stuff that I already own and have enjoyed in the past. I listen to his stuff much less often, for sure. And when I listen now, some of the artist's personal stuff comes through in ways that aren't great and can get to me. But not always. It's difficult but it's not impossible.

I can still appreciate the songs that I've always appreciated, even if there may be some new added context/subtext. The emotional resonance remains. Dear Chicago can still be a very personal song for me that is about what was going on when I first heard it, when a friend put it on a mix for me, etc. It doesn't have to bear the weight of Ryan's baggage.

Another thing that helps Kind of Blue is that there aren't lyrics. Maybe that shouldn't matter (and, surely, for others it doesn't) but it does matter to me.

With Ryan, the issue I have is not wanting to support or enable him. If Ryan ever decides to really apologize and take real steps to try and turn things around, to make amends in some way, to show real contrition and an effort to change/educate, then maybe I could see my way back to him. But as of now, I'm just not interested. He doesn't deserve my effort or my money.

The last major difference between the two that I'll bring up in this insanely long post is that Ryan hasn't ever written/recorded anything as brilliant as Kind of Blue. It's easier for me to walk away because Ryan doesn't mean to me what he means to others. The guy has two good records (no great or perfect records) and a handful of great songs. I fully admit that if his work meant more to me this would be a much harder decision/discussion.

I believe in separating the art from the artist. But I don't have to listen to Ryan Adams. He's not a necessary artist to me (like Sam Cooke, John Lennon, Michael Jackson, etc.). There is plenty of music out there that I think is better, that means more to me -- someone earlier mentioned Jason Isbell; he's a great example. So why stress about it? Why indulge? Why support a mediocre asshole? Ryan's not doing anything particularly groundbreaking or interesting to me. Others feel differently, and I'm not here to take that away from them. They can make their own decisions and I'm not about to pick a fight or judge others or go to the mattresses to make my case.

Hope that answers your question, contamination.

Thanks for the long response. Not wanting to support Ryan or enable him in any way makes total sense.

[digster]

The last major difference between the two that I'll bring up in this insanely long post is that Ryan hasn't ever written/recorded anything as brilliant as Kind of Blue. It's easier for me to walk away because Ryan doesn't mean to me what he means to others. The guy has two good records (no great or perfect records) and a handful of great songs. I fully admit that if his work meant more to me this would be a much harder decision/discussion.

I believe in separating the art from the artist. But I don't have to listen to Ryan Adams. He's not a necessary artist to me (like Sam Cooke, John Lennon, Michael Jackson, etc.). There is plenty of music out there that I think is better, that means more to me -- someone earlier mentioned Jason Isbell; he's a great example. So why stress about it? Why indulge? Why support a mediocre asshole? Ryan's not doing anything particularly groundbreaking or interesting to me. Others feel differently, and I'm not here to take that away from them. They can make their own decisions and I'm not about to pick a fight or judge others or go to the mattresses to make my case.

Hope that answers your question, contamination.

This gets to it, for me at least. I certainly listened to his music and albums enough prior to the NYT story to think of myself as a fan of his music, but I haven't gone back to it really since.....and honestly, that's been fine. My music listening hasn't really felt bereft by the lack of it; maybe I wouldn't have known this or understood it prior to everything that happened, but there ends up not really being much about his music that I can't get in bulk elsewhere. After all, we're not really lacking in singer/songwriters that do what Adams does. Maybe he scratches an itch for people in such a way that they can't find it anywhere else, but after all this I came to find that that's not the case for me. If it was the case, maybe it would be a harder question for me.

[psychobain]

I understand epilogue's position, i just feel different

his music is part of my life

the meanings of the songs (FOR ME) are related to my life and not his

im not a fan of the person, but the music is something else (FOR ME)

[epilogue]

I understand epilogue's position, i just feel different

his music is part of my life

the meanings of the songs (FOR ME) are related to my life and not his

im not a fan of the person, but the music is something else (FOR ME)

I totally understand and respect this. And I hope my post isn't taking away from others experience of the new record. I wouldn't have posted at all expect someone asked me specifically to address it.

[evenslow]

One very simplified way of looking at it is Miles Davis is a fucking icon. May as well be on Mt. Rushmore. There's something untouchable about his image b/c he accomplished all there was to accomplish before I was born. It's easier to detach art from artist imo.

Ryan Adams is like a dude I know. Hell, he could even post on a message board like this very one and I wouldn't be surprised.

May sound dumb, but that makes his stuff a little less detached and more personal to me. Like a dude I went to college with. So, it can make it more difficult to listen to his latest batch of heartbreak. I might rather just slap him on the head and say, "Quit it, asshole."

[evenslow]

I understand epilogue's position, i just feel different

his music is part of my life

the meanings of the songs (FOR ME) are related to my life and not his

im not a fan of the person, but the music is something else (FOR ME)

I totally understand and respect this. And I hope my post isn't taking away from others experience of the new record. I wouldn't have posted at all expect someone asked me specifically to address it.

I totally get it too.

[verb_to_trust]

Nobody has ever been a fan of Ryan Adams the person. His fan base should be uniquely positioned to handle his return.

[Strat]

Nobody has ever been a fan of Ryan Adams the person. His fan base should be uniquely positioned to handle his return.

Yea but he's abused his audience by virtue of his alcoholism.

Now its like...he's a woman abuser and sends dick pics to underage girls.

I dont know.

Neither camp is wrong. Im kind of mourning the loss of Ryan Adams in my life to be honest. I fucking loved him.

[evenslow]

Nobody has ever been a fan of Ryan Adams the person. His fan base should be uniquely positioned to handle his return.

Yea but he's abused his audience by virtue of his alcoholism.

Now its like...he's a woman abuser and sends dick pics to underage girls.

I dont know.

Neither camp is wrong. Im kind of mourning the loss of Ryan Adams in my life to be honest. I fucking loved him.

yep, as usual, strat and i share a brain on these things.

[Strat]

Nobody has ever been a fan of Ryan Adams the person. His fan base should be uniquely positioned to handle his return.

Yea but he's abused his audience by virtue of his alcoholism.

Now its like...he's a woman abuser and sends dick pics to underage girls.

I dont know.

Neither camp is wrong. Im kind of mourning the loss of Ryan Adams in my life to be honest. I fucking loved him.

yep, as usual, strat and i share a brain on these things.

Someday soon we will ride majestic steeds into the lower bowl of the jamily gathering at the feet of pearl jam.