Song of the Moment: Sirens

[Strat]

By the way...have you noticed that one of Matt's intro fills is not in time ?
The fill at 0:13 >>>

Yep. It's what made me say "I'll keep the studio version, cheers." He frequently makes those flubs live but they allowed this one into the video... eek.

I don't understand how they didn't correct it in post. It's really easy to do, considering how they seem to have recorded the video.

It doesnt really feel out of time, he just doesnt come in on the "1", or forgets too, its still in time though.

No no, that's out of time.

I guess ill have to catch my breath to breathe and try this again!

[McParadigm]

These mistakes are kind of a continuation of things I already don't like about Matt... so yeah, it diminishes my enjoyment of what otherwise is a great music video.

I like broken things.

[harmless]

'pearl jam shunned fame and the mainstream so they could do whatever they wanted, how cool, until 2006ish maybe 2009 when they decided they kind of missed all of it *cue fixer, just breathe, sirens*

Mind Your Manners: Greatest Hits 2003-2013.

It's gonna fly off the shelves for sure.

If they released a best of: Lightning Bolt and Backspacer vs. Binaural and Riot Act...a few years from now... which would "fly off the shelves" faster?

Er...Binaural and Riot Act.....cause bush was president.....and eddie wasn't a hypocrite back then??!!

Nah, they would get slaughtered. And the reason is, as much as some 'here' hate Backspacer (and now songs like Sirens from LB), the people who buy PJs music in mass don't. Those who think their worst-liked albums (Riot Act and Binaural) are the best, should probably come to the realization that they are PJ hipsters... and PJ doesn't really care about them.

ohh let the hatred begin in...1, 2, 3...

you'll still be able to find unsold copies of backspacer in the dumpster at any Target, so basically you'd just be rebuying Lightning Bolt.

Problem is that the few copies of Backspacer found "in the dumpster" may actually outweigh the sales of Riot Act and Binaural combined. I think most people just didn't dig the shit songs like Evacuation. Don't get me wrong - Light Years is a classic - there were a few on em', but in total - the crap bullets like You Are and Get Right killed any momentum. Basically, the sales data show Riot Act and Binaural are the band's worst albums. It's just a sad fact for RM hipsters that Backspacer (in relative terms) was well received. Songs like Sirens will be too. So, let's go back to talking about the depth of a song like Breakerfall.

"And now let's check the facts, with our facts correspondent, IlluminEddie."

[EJ]

Problem is that the few copies of Backspacer found "in the dumpster" may actually outweigh the sales of Riot Act and Binaural combined. I think most people just didn't dig the shit songs like Evacuation. Don't get me wrong - Light Years is a classic - there were a few on em', but in total - the crap bullets like You Are and Get Right killed any momentum. Basically, the sales data show Riot Act and Binaural are the band's worst albums. It's just a sad fact for RM hipsters that Backspacer (in relative terms) was well received. Songs like Sirens will be too. So, let's go back to talking about the depth of a song like Breakerfall.

[harmless]

If we ever were to lose IlluminEddie, we'd surely lose ourselves.

[Simple Torture]

Listened 2-3 times so far, and I'm not pulled in yet. I don't think it's skippable, but not a track I may seek out to listen to on its own, ya know? Considering they'll probably milk the live version to 6 1/2 or 7 minutes, I hope it's skipped at the show I go to.

[BeingeNlightened]

By the way...have you noticed that one of Matt's intro fills is not in time ?
The fill at 0:13 >>>

Yep. It's what made me say "I'll keep the studio version, cheers." He frequently makes those flubs live but they allowed this one into the video... eek.

As a long time drummer and studio rat I am not hearing this as "not in time"...

He's playing pretty traditional syncopated falling intro fills. The fill at 0:13 comes in on the "a" of count 2 in measure 4 (5 if you count the intro quarters on the hats) and plays a soft sixteeenth followed by two eighth notes, two sixteenths, and an eighth to finish out the measure and the phrase ( a-3-and-4-e-and in drum speak) and lands on a half note on the middle crash cymbal to start the next measure and next phrase. Plus he's playing a straight quarter note hi-hat with the left foot through the whole thing. Even if you don't pick up the intro sixteenth note, the eighth notes are in time. One can argue that's slightly behind the true beat throughout, but that's a common complaint about Matt's playing with PJ as much as Dave A. was almost always in front of the true beat.

Just sayin'... There's room to dog him...but let's be accurate.

[stupidmop]

'pearl jam shunned fame and the mainstream so they could do whatever they wanted, how cool, until 2006ish maybe 2009 when they decided they kind of missed all of it *cue fixer, just breathe, sirens*

Mind Your Manners: Greatest Hits 2003-2013.

It's gonna fly off the shelves for sure.

If they released a best of: Lightning Bolt and Backspacer vs. Binaural and Riot Act...a few years from now... which would "fly off the shelves" faster?

Er...Binaural and Riot Act.....cause bush was president.....and eddie wasn't a hypocrite back then??!!

Nah, they would get slaughtered. And the reason is, as much as some 'here' hate Backspacer (and now songs like Sirens from LB), the people who buy PJs music in mass don't. Those who think their worst-liked albums (Riot Act and Binaural) are the best, should probably come to the realization that they are PJ hipsters... and PJ doesn't really care about them.

ohh let the hatred begin in...1, 2, 3...

you'll still be able to find unsold copies of backspacer in the dumpster at any Target, so basically you'd just be rebuying Lightning Bolt.

Problem is that the few copies of Backspacer found "in the dumpster" may actually outweigh the sales of Riot Act and Binaural combined. I think most people just didn't dig the shit songs like Evacuation. Don't get me wrong - Light Years is a classic - there were a few on em', but in total - the crap bullets like You Are and Get Right killed any momentum. Basically, the sales data show Riot Act and Binaural are the band's worst albums. It's just a sad fact for RM hipsters that Backspacer (in relative terms) was well received. Songs like Sirens will be too. So, let's go back to talking about the depth of a song like Breakerfall.

I don't know why you're equating quality to sales. I'm assuming the biggest selling albums recently were like lady gaga or something, and probably sold more than backspacer, riot act and binaural combined. If this albums bombs saleswise will it change your thoughts on the songs?

I don't know why i'm engaging illumin-anybody in coversation.

[harmless]

By the way...have you noticed that one of Matt's intro fills is not in time ?
The fill at 0:13 >>>

Yep. It's what made me say "I'll keep the studio version, cheers." He frequently makes those flubs live but they allowed this one into the video... eek.

As a long time drummer and studio rat I am not hearing this as "not in time"...

He's playing pretty traditional syncopated falling intro fills. The fill at 0:13 comes in on the "a" of count 2 in measure 4 (5 if you count the intro quarters on the hats) and plays a soft sixteeenth followed by two eighth notes, two sixteenths, and an eighth to finish out the measure and the phrase ( a-3-and-4-e-and in drum speak) and lands on a half note on the middle crash cymbal to start the next measure and next phrase. Plus he's playing a straight quarter note hi-hat with the left foot through the whole thing. Even if you don't pick up the intro sixteenth note, the eighth notes are in time. One can argue that's slightly behind the true beat throughout, but that's a common complaint about Matt's playing with PJ as much as Dave A. was almost always in front of the true beat.

Just sayin'... There's room to dog him...but let's be accurate.

I know what he's doing. I play drums too. He's out of time. He comes in late, and pulls back too late, thus flubbing the fill. I'm not even getting into the groove proper, just on about the intro.

[stupidmop]

it seems like they went out of their way to show that this was a live performance.

leaving in the matt flub, focusing on mike as he changed guitars, keeping eddie in the shot when he strapped on his guitar during mike's solo, zooming in on ken during one of his slightly off-time piano-key bashes, etc.

And yet retracking almost all of the vocals?

Idk what this means. Are the vocals from a different take overlayed over the top? So hes not singing it live?

I think they made it look obviously live to counteract the bon jovi-ness of the song.

[harmless]

it seems like they went out of their way to show that this was a live performance.

leaving in the matt flub, focusing on mike as he changed guitars, keeping eddie in the shot when he strapped on his guitar during mike's solo, zooming in on ken during one of his slightly off-time piano-key bashes, etc.

And yet retracking almost all of the vocals?

Idk what this means. Are the vocals from a different take overlayed over the top? So hes not singing it live?

I think they made it look obviously live to counteract the bon jovi-ness of the song.

Yeah, there are bits of vocal (most of it) which are clearly lifted from the studio version, but some of the more subtle parts, the falsetto ends of words and the bits where his vocal is lower in the mix, are live.

[stupidmop]

I see.

[dprival78]

it seems like they went out of their way to show that this was a live performance.

leaving in the matt flub, focusing on mike as he changed guitars, keeping eddie in the shot when he strapped on his guitar during mike's solo, zooming in on ken during one of his slightly off-time piano-key bashes, etc.

And yet retracking almost all of the vocals?

well i imagine they would want those to be flub-free. and maybe they didn't retrack, but instead spliced together the best parts from all of the live takes they did.

[BeingeNlightened]

I know what he's doing. I play drums too. He's out of time. He comes in late, and pulls back too late, thus flubbing the fill. I'm not even getting into the groove proper, just on about the intro.

We'll agree to disagree. I hear the fill as dynamically sloppy, but not out of time. Everyone's ears are different.

[VinylGuy]

'pearl jam shunned fame and the mainstream so they could do whatever they wanted, how cool, until 2006ish maybe 2009 when they decided they kind of missed all of it *cue fixer, just breathe, sirens*

Mind Your Manners: Greatest Hits 2003-2013.

It's gonna fly off the shelves for sure.

If they released a best of: Lightning Bolt and Backspacer vs. Binaural and Riot Act...a few years from now... which would "fly off the shelves" faster?

Er...Binaural and Riot Act.....cause bush was president.....and eddie wasn't a hypocrite back then??!!

Nah, they would get slaughtered. And the reason is, as much as some 'here' hate Backspacer (and now songs like Sirens from LB), the people who buy PJs music in mass don't. Those who think their worst-liked albums (Riot Act and Binaural) are the best, should probably come to the realization that they are PJ hipsters... and PJ doesn't really care about them.

ohh let the hatred begin in...1, 2, 3...

you'll still be able to find unsold copies of backspacer in the dumpster at any Target, so basically you'd just be rebuying Lightning Bolt.

Problem is that the few copies of Backspacer found "in the dumpster" may actually outweigh the sales of Riot Act and Binaural combined. I think most people just didn't dig the shit songs like Evacuation. Don't get me wrong - Light Years is a classic - there were a few on em', but in total - the crap bullets like You Are and Get Right killed any momentum. Basically, the sales data show Riot Act and Binaural are the band's worst albums. It's just a sad fact for RM hipsters that Backspacer (in relative terms) was well received. Songs like Sirens will be too. So, let's go back to talking about the depth of a song like Breakerfall.

Wel,l you clearly dont like those albums and its fine. Worst ones? i dont know, that´s subjective. A lot of people is hating Sirens and i love it, so...who cares? They have been saying pj "changed and died" since..No Code.
Binaural had a huge backlash back in the day, and their 2000 tour was criticized at the time by the same fans who some years later claimed it was the best tour and the best album...and its fine....

One thing im sure; record sales dont determinate the quality of an album.

[Jorge]

I don't know why you're equating quality to sales.

Because he's IlluminEddie and he's a dumb dumb dumb motherfucker

[IlluminEddie]

I don't know why you're equating quality to sales. I'm assuming the biggest selling albums recently were like lady gaga or something, and probably sold more than backspacer, riot act and binaural combined. If this albums bombs saleswise will it change your thoughts on the songs?

I don't know why i'm engaging illumin-anybody in coversation.

I'm not equating quality to sales. I sincerely believe Pearl Jam "fans" prefer this sort of music. Just because a few computer-savy people set up a website where some PJ fans gather and over the years of talking to one another some there form like-minded opinions on the band's worst albums being the best, doesn't make all those other Pearl Jam fans less relevant. Album sales for one band, typically CAN indicate an album's quality when comparing it to the SAME band's other albums. The lady gaga nonsense doesn't hold water because we're talking about PJ and PJ alone here.

For example, sales were declining for the band and hit low points during Binaural and Riot Act. I'm fairly sure they picked up with S/T and Backspacer.

In general, sales are an indicator. Sales trends are also an indicator. And in this case, I think they are pretty decent one because we're not just picking out outliers, we're dealing with sales and trends FOR ONE BAND ALONE. The trend is being broken with PJ's newer stuff. The trend was hitting new lows with Riot Act and Binaural.

[jdopj]

Just listened to this 3 times in the last 12 hours.
Wow. Great song. Not sure I understand where all the cheese comments were coming from. When you watch the video it sure seems heartfelt. Cheese to me is faked emotion. Contrived feeling. I don't get that from this song or lyrics.

[WaitingForBluey]

Based on a lot of the reactions from Sirens (including the unexpected vitriol over at the Pit), it is clear to me that not many of you are subjected to countless hours of mindless top 40 pop radio crap every day. My co-workers love that shit and that's all we listen to at work. If Sirens came on right now it would totally blow the pants off of everything that's been played so far today (and that includes KOL's Use Somebody, which is completely inferior to Sirens at this point, it's not even close).

Why is PJ's versions of pop radio much better than pop radio? Because PJ are still craftsmen, even in their worst moments. Sirens still has substance and weight to it, regardless of whether or not it comes off as bubblegum. Hell, I would argue that Sirens has more substance to it than a song like Betterman. And even though this is brand new territory for them, at the end of the day, or at least after about 10 listens, this sounds like Pearl Jam to me.

[harmless]

I know what he's doing. I play drums too. He's out of time. He comes in late, and pulls back too late, thus flubbing the fill. I'm not even getting into the groove proper, just on about the intro.

We'll agree to disagree. I hear the fill as dynamically sloppy, but not out of time. Everyone's ears are different.

"Dynamically sloppy?" I would go with that if all the others were as well. This song isn't like a laid-back reggae jam. Is all of Matt's overly-fast playing live "dynamically sloppy" as well? I find Matt to be a sloppy drummer too much of the time, and my feeling has very little to do with dynamics. There are charming rough-patches and ticks that musicians can have, but I don't think Matt has many of those. He's either metronomic and on-the-button, or pretty bad.