Song of the Moment: Sirens

[IlluminEddie]

I don't know why you're equating quality to sales.

Because he's IlluminEddie and he's a dumb dumb dumb motherfucker

I'm dumb because I am stating Backspacer sold more records than some of PJs other albums. Your intelligence is breathtaking.

[Jorge]

Yes that is exactly the argument you're making

[VinylGuy]

I don't know why you're equating quality to sales.

Because he's IlluminEddie and he's a dumb dumb dumb motherfucker

[McParadigm]

I don't know why you're equating quality to sales.

Because he's IlluminEddie and he's a dumb dumb dumb motherfucker

I'm dumb because I am stating Backspacer sold more records than some of PJs other albums. Your intelligence is breathtaking.

It sold fewer than Binaural or S/T. It performed far better compared to market than Binaural, however (as in, it's sales were much higher compared to the norm in 2009 than Binaural's were in 2000), and slightly better than S/T (which had more press and buzz on arrival, and sold a larger share of its copies in the initial weeks).

[stupidmop]

I'm not equating quality to sales. I sincerely believe Pearl Jam "fans" prefer this sort of music. Just because a few computer-savy people set up a website where some PJ fans gather and over the years of talking to one another some there form like-minded opinions on the band's worst albums being the best, doesn't make all those other Pearl Jam fans less relevant. Album sales for one band, typically CAN indicate an album's quality when comparing it the SAME band's other albums.

Literally no one here thinks this place is the be all and end all of opinions on Pearl Jam. Right now i am in the minority of people on this board who dislike sirens and isn't too excited about the other tracks i've heard either. I am not however running around pissing people off with 'just because you like these songs don't forget that some of us dislike them, geez theres so many positive opinions here i feel unwelcome, why dont you people understand that people have different views on pearl jam????' Which is what you sound like.

For example, sales were declining for the band and hit low points during Binaural and Riot Act. I'm fairly sure they picked up with S/T and Backspacer.

In general, sales are an indicator. Sales trends are also an indicator. And in this case, I think they are pretty decent one because we're not just picking out outliers, we're dealing with sales and trends FOR ONE BAND ALONE. The trend is being broken with PJ's newer stuff. The trend was hitting new lows with Riot Act and Binaural.

I prefer Binaural and riot act to the subsequent albums i didnt say you had to. In no way do i think they are more commercial albums. They also ramped up the marketing with S/T and beyond.

I refuse to be sucked into an illumineddie blackhole , if any one sees me reply again slap me.

[WaitingForBluey]

I don't know why you're equating quality to sales.

Because he's IlluminEddie and he's a dumb dumb dumb motherfucker

That's just not even cool platy... no reason for that shit here

We're jamily remember?

[Jorge]

GAUNTLET: THROWN

[WaitingForBluey]

if any one sees me reply again slap me.

You know, you might want to take the rest of the week off... you're unnaturally pissed off and cranky as hell this week... go smoke something

[EJ]

I don't know why you're equating quality to sales.

Because he's IlluminEddie and he's a dumb dumb dumb motherfucker

That's just not even cool platy... no reason for that shit here

We're jamily gremmies remember?

[digster]

I don't know why you're equating quality to sales.

Because he's IlluminEddie and he's a dumb dumb dumb motherfucker

I'm dumb because I am stating Backspacer sold more records than some of PJs other albums. Your intelligence is breathtaking.

It sold fewer than Binaural or S/T. It performed far better compared to market than Binaural, however (as in, it's sales were much higher compared to the norm in 2009 than Binaural's were in 2000), and slightly better than S/T (which had more press and buzz on arrival, and sold a larger share of its copies in the initial weeks).

I think PJ's album sales have been hurt far less than most other acts in the wake of the shitstorm pirating has had on albums.

But still, Illumineddie's point makes no sense, for a) Binaural sold more, and b) anyone who thinks that the record charts on an accurate representation of quality should check out the Billboard top 10.

[Thejambi]

Ummm.
1. Matt fucks up the intro. It's clear as day
2. YouTube views

[Jorge]

hear the sigh, Réns

[BeingeNlightened]

I know what he's doing. I play drums too. He's out of time. He comes in late, and pulls back too late, thus flubbing the fill. I'm not even getting into the groove proper, just on about the intro.

We'll agree to disagree. I hear the fill as dynamically sloppy, but not out of time. Everyone's ears are different.

"Dynamically sloppy?" I would go with that if all the others were as well. This song isn't like a laid-back reggae jam. Is all of Matt's overly-fast playing live "dynamically sloppy" as well? I find Matt to be a sloppy drummer too much of the time, and my feeling has very little to do with dynamics. There are charming rough-patches and ticks that musicians can have, but I don't think Matt has many of those. He's either metronomic and on-the-button, or pretty bad.

Well, the discussion was scoped to a single fill on a single song...about as laser focused as you can get. As far as the larger Matt contribution goes, I personally feel like he generally sits behind the beat with this band in an almost lazy style (even when he jacks the tempo inappropriately high a la Evenflow) and frankly, I don't think the work he does in this group gets the command of his focus the way the work with Soundgarden or some of his personal endeavors do. Perhaps it's because the nature of this band is very much more laid back and that comes through in the simplicity of the phrasing particularly in the percussive voice. It's no secret that the band overtly moved away from higher complexity there. Matt's for sure aware of that and fits right in that pocket. Hard to speak to the intelligent design of that from my position, but I can say that the impact of that approach on the listener can vary. It bugs me most of the time, particularly in the live setting.

[WaitingForBluey]

Against my better judgement, I'm going to try to defend IlluminEddie here...

I don't think he's saying that sales and quality equate... I think what he is getting at is that sales for PJ albums alone can be used as a guage for how responsive the PJ fanbase as a whole is responding to each album...

For most of us here that logic seems silly since most of us are big fans of the No Code > Riot Act years were commercial success was not a very important goal for the band, and probably for most of its fanbase...

Although album sales in 2000 are extremely difficult to compare to album sales in 2009 (due to the changing market) and something as arbitrary as the Billboard 200 is also hard to put a lot of stock in... for a numbers person like me (I'm a quantitative data research analyst at a large research university) I like to look at these things more out of curiosity than anything...

So my point is... ah, fuck it

[harmless]

I know what he's doing. I play drums too. He's out of time. He comes in late, and pulls back too late, thus flubbing the fill. I'm not even getting into the groove proper, just on about the intro.

We'll agree to disagree. I hear the fill as dynamically sloppy, but not out of time. Everyone's ears are different.

"Dynamically sloppy?" I would go with that if all the others were as well. This song isn't like a laid-back reggae jam. Is all of Matt's overly-fast playing live "dynamically sloppy" as well? I find Matt to be a sloppy drummer too much of the time, and my feeling has very little to do with dynamics. There are charming rough-patches and ticks that musicians can have, but I don't think Matt has many of those. He's either metronomic and on-the-button, or pretty bad.

Well, the discussion was scoped to a single fill on a single song...about as laser focused as you can get. As far as the larger Matt contribution goes, I personally feel like he generally sits behind the beat with this band in an almost lazy style (even when he jacks the tempo inappropriately high a la Evenflow) and frankly, I don't think the work he does in this group gets the command of his focus the way the work with Soundgarden or some of his personal endeavors do. Perhaps it's because the nature of this band is very much more laid back and that comes through in the simplicity of the phrasing particularly in the percussive voice. It's no secret that the band overtly moved away from higher complexity there. Matt's for sure aware of that and fits right in that pocket. Hard to speak to the intelligent design of that from my position, but I can say that the impact of that approach on the listener can vary. It bugs me most of the time, particularly in the live setting.

I think I agree with this post

[IlluminEddie]

I don't know why you're equating quality to sales.

Because he's IlluminEddie and he's a dumb dumb dumb motherfucker

I'm dumb because I am stating Backspacer sold more records than some of PJs other albums. Your intelligence is breathtaking.

It sold fewer than Binaural or S/T. It performed far better compared to market than Binaural, however (as in, it's sales were much higher compared to the norm in 2009 than Binaural's were in 2000), and slightly better than S/T (which had more press and buzz on arrival, and sold a larger share of its copies in the initial weeks).

You're leaving out that Backspacer ALREADY sold more than Riot Act.

Even if the point on Binaural is true in actual levels (which I'd like to see), it's probably not true in terms of speed and quantity, which is the real point. The earlier albums have a head's start and were in a psychical market, so it's slightly incomparable. Backspacer is already higher than Riot Act in sales, and (even if it hasn't yet) I think it will pass Binaural with time given it's start. S/T wasn't really mentioned by me at all I don't believe.

And my original point was a greatest hits of LB and Backspacer would outsell a greatest hits of Riot Act and Binaural. I think this will be true based on Backspacer's positive market reception (which you hinted at) vs Riot Act's (which was ignored) and Binaural's (which you said performed worse than Backspacer).

[VinylGuy]

I don't know why you're equating quality to sales.

Because he's IlluminEddie and he's a dumb dumb dumb motherfucker

I'm dumb because I am stating Backspacer sold more records than some of PJs other albums. Your intelligence is breathtaking.

It sold fewer than Binaural or S/T. It performed far better compared to market than Binaural, however (as in, it's sales were much higher compared to the norm in 2009 than Binaural's were in 2000), and slightly better than S/T (which had more press and buzz on arrival, and sold a larger share of its copies in the initial weeks).

You're leaving out that Backspacer ALREADY sold more than Riot Act.

Even if the point on Binaural is true in actual levels (which I'd like to see), it's probably not true in terms of speed and quantity, which is the real point. The earlier albums have a head's start and were in a psychical market, so it's slightly incomparable. Backspacer is already higher than Riot Act in sales, and (even if it hasn't yet) I think it will pass Binaural with time given it's start. S/T wasn't really mentioned by me at all I don't believe.

And my original point was a greatest hits of LB and Backspacer would outsell a greatest hits of Riot Act and Binaural. I think this will be true based on Backspacer's positive market reception (which you hinted at) vs Riot Act's (which was ignored) and Binaural's (which you said performed worse than Backspacer).

I agree with that.
A hits compilation of LB, BS and ST would sell more than RA or Binaural...i dont think that means anything though in terms of quality or pj fans liking more those albums.

[IlluminEddie]

I don't think he's saying that sales and quality equate... I think what he is getting at is that sales for PJ albums alone can be used as a guage for how responsive the PJ fanbase as a whole is responding to each album...

[WaitingForBluey]

And my original point was a greatest hits of LB and Backspacer would outsell a greatest hits of Riot Act and Binaural. I think this will be true based on Backspacer's positive market reception (which you hinted at) vs Riot Act's (which was ignored) and Binaural's (which you said performed worse than Backspacer).

I agree with that.
A hits compilation of LB, BS and ST would sell more than RA or Binaural...i dont think that means anything though in terms of quality or pj fans liking more those albums.

Is that what's being debated here? Shit, why didn't anyone tell me? That's a no brainer. It doesn't mean it would be better, because it wouldn't, but it's still the truth... OK, done now... Next topic please!

[McParadigm]

You're leaving out that Backspacer ALREADY sold more than Riot Act.

Even if the point on Binaural is true in actual levels (which I'd like to see), it's probably not true in terms of speed and quantity, which is the real point. The earlier albums have a head's start and were in a psychical market, so it's slightly incomparable. Backspacer is already higher than Riot Act in sales, and (even if it hasn't yet) I think it will pass Binaural with time given it's start. S/T wasn't really mentioned by me at all I don't believe.

And my original point was a greatest hits of LB and Backspacer would outsell a greatest hits of Riot Act and Binaural. I think this will be true based on Backspacer's positive market reception (which you hinted at) vs Riot Act's (which was ignored) and Binaural's (which you said performed worse than Backspacer).

You're missing my point, charmer. I'm agreeing that Backspacer is by far the most impactful record they made last decade, in terms of non-fans, but illustrating why sales figures are a bad way to evaluate that.

However, since you asked, as of late 2012....

2000 Binaural - 752,000
2002 Riot Act - 508,000
2003 Lost Dogs - 385,000
2004 Rearviewmirror - 1,209,000
2006 Pearl Jam - 706,000
2009 Backspacer - 618,000

Now keep this in mind while looking at that: