Election 2020

[BurtReynolds]

How did Trump pick up another vote in the poll here?

You can't stop the Trump train!

[Mickey]

I don't think that anyone has adequately answered this in the last four years, but: how are conservative voters more aggrieved than anyone else? No one has any money, everyone is suffering. Income inequality affects us all, lack of infrastructure affects us all. How is this one group supposedly suffering more than anyone else? A lot of immigrants essentially experience taxation without representation, but they're not storming the capitol.

Why are we supposed to feel especially sorry for these people when everyone is struggling?

Are you talking to me?

Everyone.

All I'm saying is that conservative people don't control any of the major institutions of power except the church. And no one on the left or establishment GOP represents their interests.

Everyone else can argue over who's more oppressed if they want.

Their interests, which are... *waives hand in the air vaguely*

[bada]

Beer guns tits and Jesus

[BurtReynolds]

Beer guns tits and Jesus

And American flag onesies

[BurtReynolds]

I don't think that anyone has adequately answered this in the last four years, but: how are conservative voters more aggrieved than anyone else? No one has any money, everyone is suffering. Income inequality affects us all, lack of infrastructure affects us all. How is this one group supposedly suffering more than anyone else? A lot of immigrants essentially experience taxation without representation, but they're not storming the capitol.

Why are we supposed to feel especially sorry for these people when everyone is struggling?

Are you talking to me?

Everyone.

All I'm saying is that conservative people don't control any of the major institutions of power except the church. And no one on the left or establishment GOP represents their interests.

Everyone else can argue over who's more oppressed if they want.

Their interests, which are... *waives hand in the air vaguely*

You want me to make a list?

Why don't you make a list, and I'll tell you which ones are right?

[Mickey]

Yes, why don't I make your argument for you, great idea.

[B]

All I'm saying is that conservative people don't control any of the major institutions of power except the church. And no one on the left or establishment GOP represents their interests.

What interests aren't being addressed? You want your guns protected? No one's tried to touch anyone's guns in two decades.

Do you want job opportunities? Well the economy went to shit, but everyone, everyone, is trying to fix that.

Are you afraid the pandemics going to kill you, or kill your business? Everyone is working on that too.

from watching them on the news, they're only interest seem to be we hate the Democrats and white people need to be in power. That's not really a list of demands. It's just psychotic raving.

If they had an interest other than "I love Trump," they might be surprised at how many people are willing to address it.

[Mickey]

The thing is, you’re describing this Conservativism of the People culture not by what it has to offer but by how much influence it can achieve. And your point, even then, is “not much.”

Yeah.

If you were to describe this Conservatism of the People, which is not shared by their ruling conservative elites, what specific values and policy dreams would you ascribe to them?

That's a bit hard to answer with Trump in the White House. He's pulled Republicans kicking and screaming in a populist direction at times, but even then it doesn't amount to much real movement.

I think immigration and tariffs are the biggest ones. On immigration, establishment Republicans are notorious for saying one thing and doing another. I think the same can be said for a lot of social issues and internet censorship as well. Establishment Republicans are more excited about foreign aid and intervention than voters...

Just to note, McP also wondered what this vague sense of conservative interests or policy goals were that are not being heard or represented, and was told "immigration and tariffs." The former has been a cultural watchword and policy item for at least two decades, the latter lmao.

[BurtReynolds]

The latter lmao? What does that mean?

[BurtReynolds]

They want tighter immigration controls. This is an interest.

I don't know why this is so hard to understand. I don't get the need for ever greater specificity or why you need an exhaustive list.

[BurtReynolds]

Just fucking ask them lol

[Mickey]

The latter lmao? What does that mean?

The large mass of justifiably aggrieved conservatives because no one is representing their interest in tariffs!

[Mickey]

So just to be clear, conservatives are justifiably aggrieved because no one is talking about tighter immigration controls, leaving aside Obama's expansion of ICE and historic deportation rate, and "I don't like immigration" is a constitutive element of conservative culture (leaving aside conservative businessmen who depend on select types of immigration) which has been ignored for too long except for being the current president's principal campaign plank. Got it.

[BurtReynolds]

The latter lmao? What does that mean?

The large mass of justifiably aggrieved conservatives because no one is representing their interest in tariffs!

Who said anything about "justifiable?"

[Mickey]

The latter lmao? What does that mean?

The large mass of justifiably aggrieved conservatives because no one is representing their interest in tariffs!

Who said anything about "justifiable?"

Right, conservatives are the clear cultural and political underdogs but also they're not justified in feeling this way.

[BurtReynolds]

I'm saying they want things and can't get them and have very little hope getting them because they have little representation in positions of power. Their best hope was an insane con-artist clown person and look at him now.

Lol I swear to god you guys were so hopelessly partisan. Look outside the game just for a second. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT MERIT OR WHETHER THEY ARE JUSTIFIED IN WANTING WHAT THEY WANT.

[BurtReynolds]

Maybe they deserve to be underdogs. Maybe not. That doesn't change the fact that they are underdogs.

[Mickey]

So again, a big part of being a conservative is "immigration control" (seemingly for no direct reason, it's just kind of an abstract ideal), it being a central part of the Bush, Obama, AND Trump presidencies was not sufficient and doesn't at all indicate that their interest is being represented, oh and also we shouldn't hate or despise these people who hold some kind of fanatical, unquenchable desire for immigration control.

[BurtReynolds]

Having little power doesn't inherently mean you are justified in thinking you deserve more power. Stop thinking like a commie for two seconds!

[Mickey]

The only way to get immigration control is orange man, the other 17 GOP candidates who ran on a slightly more moderate form of immigration control don't count