Song of the Moment: Sirens

[harmless]

A songwriter's personal life has no bearing on his music, guys. why would you even think that?

Why the actual fuck would a singer's sincerity be undermined by the fact his wife was traditionally beautiful?

[VinylGuy]

WOWWWWW

i like how sirens has got everyone so troubled today!!

[McParadigm]

I hate when you make a joke right before an argument takes off, and it's never heard from again.

sorry babe - I'm done. I normally adore your jokes.

As long as I have me, I'll be fine.

[IlluminEddie]

To me, this data really hammers home which album is the worst in the collection.

Which brings us back to the part where you're retardedly equaling sales with quality. Finally.

To pretend the two are unrelated is retarded.

Do you think The Who's worst selling album was the best? How about Pink Floyd's worst seller? Now, if you went to a random set of people and looked only at those who declared themselves as "fans" (nothing more, nothing less - no need for a fan club membership or spending hours of their day at a real cool website, they just said they are fans of Pink Floyd on a random survey they were given)... do you think that The Who or Pink Floyd's "fans" would rate their worst selling album as the best in terms of quality in aggregate? Do you think the worst sellers may end up at the bottom? I do - why - because I'm practical.

Sales are related to quality for ONE band's catalog. It doesn't work from band to band, or genre to genre... but, individually for one band from album to album it does.

Should that effect your thinking? No, but neither should the herd mentality of a website full of hipsters.

Sales can be inflated by circumstance, trends, a single ect. Sales have such a small bearing on the "quality" of an album.

I agree. But, in general, I think it's the best metric available particularly when discussing fan's rankings of ONE bands albums. Name an alternative.

A survey would probably be ideal, but it would have to be done on the street or something. Are you a Pearl Jam fan, ok rank these albums....

That still doesn't speak to "quality" which is a very ambiguous term.

Ten is Pearl Jams highest selling album. As a fan I put it in the middle. The only objective data from that is that I have an opinion. It has nothing to do with sales. Vitalogy-Binaural are in my opinion are the highest "quality" pearl jam albums. By sales individually and even combine they are "inferior" to Ten and Vs.

Last Kiss out sold Jeremy . What does that say?

But, you can rank quality for yourself - right?

A survey would capture your rankings, and mine and others... that would probably be the best way.

As for sales, I think sales does the same thing in a sense - admittedly not quite as well. If you don't like something, you aren't going to buy it. If you do, you will. In this day and age, it's even less cut and dry because you can now download it if you don't really like it too much or are indifferent about rewarding the artist. My point is that Backspacer, which was more negatively impacted by declining national album sales and piracy, outsold Riot Act. In that sense, sales could be used for ranking albums and would apparently show Backspacer over Riot Act.

I don't think singles can be used with the same statistical accuracy. But, in general, Last Kiss was preferred by more people to Jeremy. That's what it would say. I think the issue here is most think that they are "real fans" of Pearl Jam than some who don't come to boards like this. I disagree. A fan's a fan to me. They all count.

[philpritchard]

Any complaints about Eddie marrying a model have always baffled me.

[Heathen]

Really cracks me up when women bring up ed having a model wife as part of their distaste for PJ music these days...

Its....

Interesting....

shut up, strat. you're grasping at straws here, and I'm not interested in this kind of bullshit male egotism wrapped up in what you poorly try to disguise as 'interesting' - if you don't think ed's marriage (second marriage at that) to a beautiful younger woman was a thorough disappointment to someone like myself who always had a tremendous amount of respect for him as someone from my generation who was sincere in his views, only to observe him give in to every stupid and insecure stereotype that he used to rail against, then you know- not really my issue- you think it's cool? good - I don't. I think it's typical and thus disappointing behavior from what used to be an extraordinary icon of the 90s.

Sorry to do this malice, but I agree with you. Ed's without a doubt a hypocrite. Here and elsewhere.

#riotactstillsucks

and you know, I don't give a fuck what you think- it has nothing to do with your opinions expressed previously - i don't get much satisfaction out of reading otherwise rational and fairly intelligent younger people start up with the same tired crap whenever they see a good looking woman hanging off a rock star- it's not about the hypocracy ed displays - I expect it - he's like every other aging man I'm familiar with- and as such is normal.
it's about this younger group of people falling for the same shit the men from my generation fell for. so thanks for playing

Are you assuming we all like this stuff because we're all married to supermodels or want to be, so we're upholding the patriarchy or something?

no mark - it's an exaggeration that I'm employing to make my point. I don't appreciate strat making some attempt to infer I'm a woman and am therefore jealous because eddie vedder is married to jill whatever her name is, because it makes assumptions about how women are.

I'm so much older than most of the people on this board it's retarded of me to even post at this point, really- but I like you guys because you're all very smart and in general very enlightened people - so my fucking feathers get ruffled when I start reading that kind of reaction to some off the cuff comment I made in regards to a song I don't think terribly highly of - it's tiring.

for the record, i picked up on that and agree with you.

no need to hit on malice, she's not a model

[malice]

Really cracks me up when women bring up ed having a model wife as part of their distaste for PJ music these days...

Its....

Interesting....

shut up, strat. you're grasping at straws here, and I'm not interested in this kind of bullshit male egotism wrapped up in what you poorly try to disguise as 'interesting' - if you don't think ed's marriage (second marriage at that) to a beautiful younger woman was a thorough disappointment to someone like myself who always had a tremendous amount of respect for him as someone from my generation who was sincere in his views, only to observe him give in to every stupid and insecure stereotype that he used to rail against, then you know- not really my issue- you think it's cool? good - I don't. I think it's typical and thus disappointing behavior from what used to be an extraordinary icon of the 90s.

But... You do realize the reason Ed and Beth got a divorce was because Beth was sleeping with a construction worker working on remodeling their house?

so the fuck what? I don't give a flying fuck about why anyone gets divorced. I'm expressing my disgust about the idea that all you guys- and you're mostly guys on this board, so i feel fine in generalizing - you all seem to feel justified in this type of opinion (as what strat expressed- I'm not inferring you personally feel this way- I don't know you)
it's old fashioned male bullshit that assumes if you got an opportunity to marry a model, all you all would jump on that shit too- which, I'm here to let everyone know - it's not going to help you much in your own relationships as you all age. (again I don't know you, you could be my age, in which case, apologies, but I stand by my opinion)

No offense, but I think you really need to reevaluate your life's priorities and what is worth getting upset over.

hey thanks dude - I do actually look to a message board to help me find direction in my life

You seem horrible. So, she is a model, thus she is a terrible person? Who's the shallow one here?

Sorry to be you. Man alive.

And why did i just respond to this. Now im terrible. Seacrest out.

oh, I'm worse than horrible, strat. surely I've proven that...

[McParadigm]

Because you don't like the music. That's it, and that's fine. And you don't go insulting everyone's views about love and women just because we like a song.

No. Because it would be funny. I love Do the Evolution to death, but it would still slay me if he revealed in his tell-all biography that he really meant all that shit, and played it off as sarcasm later when he saw how it went over.

[harmless]

Really cracks me up when women bring up ed having a model wife as part of their distaste for PJ music these days...

Its....

Interesting....

shut up, strat. you're grasping at straws here, and I'm not interested in this kind of bullshit male egotism wrapped up in what you poorly try to disguise as 'interesting' - if you don't think ed's marriage (second marriage at that) to a beautiful younger woman was a thorough disappointment to someone like myself who always had a tremendous amount of respect for him as someone from my generation who was sincere in his views, only to observe him give in to every stupid and insecure stereotype that he used to rail against, then you know- not really my issue- you think it's cool? good - I don't. I think it's typical and thus disappointing behavior from what used to be an extraordinary icon of the 90s.

Sorry to do this malice, but I agree with you. Ed's without a doubt a hypocrite. Here and elsewhere.

#riotactstillsucks

and you know, I don't give a fuck what you think- it has nothing to do with your opinions expressed previously - i don't get much satisfaction out of reading otherwise rational and fairly intelligent younger people start up with the same tired crap whenever they see a good looking woman hanging off a rock star- it's not about the hypocracy ed displays - I expect it - he's like every other aging man I'm familiar with- and as such is normal.
it's about this younger group of people falling for the same shit the men from my generation fell for. so thanks for playing

Are you assuming we all like this stuff because we're all married to supermodels or want to be, so we're upholding the patriarchy or something?

no mark - it's an exaggeration that I'm employing to make my point. I don't appreciate strat making some attempt to infer I'm a woman and am therefore jealous because eddie vedder is married to jill whatever her name is, because it makes assumptions about how women are.

I'm so much older than most of the people on this board it's retarded of me to even post at this point, really- but I like you guys because you're all very smart and in general very enlightened people - so my fucking feathers get ruffled when I start reading that kind of reaction to some off the cuff comment I made in regards to a song I don't think terribly highly of - it's tiring.

for the record, i picked up on that and agree with you.

And I reacted to you for different reasons than Strat did, to be fair. I don't think jealousy comes into it if you hate this song, but neither do I think idolisation of rich rockstars with Stepford wives does for people like me.

[Lounge Lizard]

So how's this thing doing on the radio?

[WaitingForBluey]

What the hell is going on here?

Damn, I really wish I could just kick everyone the fuck out of here. I'll say it again... GO TO THE LIGHTNING BOLT THREAD WITH THIS SHIT!!!!

I sure would love to talk about Sirens. Has anyone heard that song yet?

[broken iris]

Someone should make a "general Pearl Jam bitching" thread where all the ardent haters/defenders can go post. You will never convince anyone of anything on the internet and this thread is becoming worthless even by RM standards. Just let go.

[Jorge]

Really cracks me up when women bring up ed having a model wife as part of their distaste for PJ music these days...

Its....

Interesting....

shut up, strat. you're grasping at straws here, and I'm not interested in this kind of bullshit male egotism wrapped up in what you poorly try to disguise as 'interesting' - if you don't think ed's marriage (second marriage at that) to a beautiful younger woman was a thorough disappointment to someone like myself who always had a tremendous amount of respect for him as someone from my generation who was sincere in his views, only to observe him give in to every stupid and insecure stereotype that he used to rail against, then you know- not really my issue- you think it's cool? good - I don't. I think it's typical and thus disappointing behavior from what used to be an extraordinary icon of the 90s.

Certainly not going to get into any of this, but since you have no idea who his wife really is, the egotism and shallowism is quite apparent here...

And also, wow, calm down.

shallowism

[Heathen]

Because you don't like the music. That's it, and that's fine. And you don't go insulting everyone's views about love and women just because we like a song.

No. Because it would be funny. I love Do the Evolution to death, but it would still slay me if he revealed in his tell-all biography that he really meant all that shit, and played it off as sarcasm later when he saw how it went over.

I think harmless intended to reply to malice but I'm kinda curious to see how far this discussion can go now.

[philpritchard]

Someone should make a "general Pearl Jam bitching" thread where all the ardent haters/defenders can go post. You will never convince anyone of anything on the internet and this thread is becoming worthless even by RM standards. Just let go.

Then the fear goes away.

[liebzz]

I have nothing to add except I am not sure you can, by definition, be both a Pearl Jam fan AND a hipster. We might have to ask Pitchfork for clarification on this.

[Fuzzcharger]

It's getting hot in here.

[Heathen]

So how's this thing doing on the radio?

Red Mosquito Unhinged? I hear it's a hit.

[McParadigm]

Goddamn this thread is really starting to pick up

It's like a ballpit party

[solace]

don't we all try and date someone who we personally find very attractive at the time?

that doesn't make someone shallow

While Jill might have been a clothing model years ago, and while she's what some might consider traditionally gorgeous, she's not someone I find super attractive to me personally.