Noaheb wrote:We would have ruined every part of that and every other great PJ album no doubt...
I think that's nonsense.
i don't. Well, ruined may be too strong a word but I think a lot of people consistently underestimate the way the mass psychology of groups can impact the individual preferences and perceptions within them. Corduroy suddenly doesn't suck, but any little part of a song that someone might have had a problem with that was glossed over or relegated to an afterthought is suddenly hammered home ad infinitum and impacts in subtle (or in some cases not so subtle) ways your perceptions of the song--especially during that early period where you're first trying to decide for yourself what you think about them.
And yes yes, I know that somehow every poster here is immune to these effects and that the normal ways human beings process information and develop opinions about things somehow doesn't apply to the people of RM.
Do you like the new stuff so much because you are indeed immune to the effects of the infamous overwhelming negativity of this board or because of some contrarian reaction to it?
I like the new stuff because I think they're good songs.
Having said that, I'm not immune to the effects of the context in which I develop my opinions. No one is. It's not like this stuff is a brick wall you just smack into and your opinion is immediately changed. But certainly I am more inclined to second guess some things if there is a broad backlash against something. On the positive side I may very well have stuck with Sirens because of the positive comments.
My point is that the reactions (positive or negative) will shape how you come to think about these songs in subtle ways. If you're not sure how you feel about something excessive discussion of its strengths or weaknesses is likely to shape how you perceive it. And if it is music or art that takes you some time to get a handle on the these conversations will have a greater impact on you. But this is impacting all of us to a greater or lesser degree. The stronger your immediate reaction to something the less prominent this may be. If I was here for Riot Act or Binaural I think I would have been influenced more because I wasn't nearly as sure about how I felt about those albums.
Another positive example--the very positive reaction Getaway has gotten (quite possibly at the bottom of the new songs for me--FD excluded) has probably either kept me more open minded about the song or, with parts I'm iffy about, pushed me over into the 'it's good' camp. Not that I sat down and said 'RM likes this so it must be good and i'll like it too.' It's more subtle than that. I am not even aware that it's happening (well I probably am after the fact, since i'm talking about it but only because I spend time thinking about thinking)
Again, it's subtle. I am having such a positive reaction to these songs because I really like them. But I may like two of them even more because of the board reaction. Since I am inclined to like them a negative reaction may not make me like them less, but a positive reaction may make me like them more (see, perhaps, getaway and sirens). If I was inclined to be skeptical of them a positive reaction might not mean much (it might alienate me further, but a negative reaction will activate all sorts of confirmation biases and harden inchoate opinions prematurely--before I have a chance to really decide this for myself.
This is not the same thing as being overtly influenced by a discussion (everyone loves in the moonlight so maybe I should check it out again) or by specific people. Badmusic doesn't like pearl jam anymore so what he thinks about the songs is largely irrelevant in my own assessment. If chud just posts these songs suck or Verb To Trust dismisses the entire record without hearing it (even though he is positive he'll go into an album he's written off with an open mind) then their thoughts will be irrelevant to me. That's posting as posturing, and it can be funny, or annoying, or ignored,but it doesn't have an impact (it might if I didn't know the background) But if someone like Kevin Davis or you or DcT or Platy or Lament or Juvenal or Iceagecoming or Thejambi or McP --people who usually post interesting and thoughtful things or whose tastes often mirror my own (sorry to the many people I left off that list--I gotta stop naming people at some point) I am likely to pay close attention and go back and consciously revisit how I hear certain things. My thoughts may change or they may not change, but I'm still ALLOWING myself to be influenced in a specific way. But that's different than the subtle stuff described above. That can't be controlled. It's a background process that impacts everyone.
I hope that makes sense. I don't do my best thinking with a fussy baby in my lap
That's a whole different thing than "We would have ruined every part of [Vitalogy] and every other great PJ album no doubt...". My point is just that these things may be happening but the truth is you don't know for sure that it's happening or happening in a way that is significant enough, yet it's going to be assumed that it is a) happening and b) happening only in a negative way.
I'm happy I was listed both with the irrelevant trolls and the interesting posters (but I think for the latter you just thought you were talking to spenno instead).
cutuphalfdead wrote:so glad i don't see signatures
harmless wrote:I've never been incredibly content with anything, and I think outward engagement is crucial, especially if you set a precedent for it, like Ed has. But personal happiness isn't really the point of Pearl Jam and never was until quite recently; I think Ed's spent much of his time railing against injustice, and whatever you think of the songs (I love most of them) it was supposed to be more than entertainment. If all of his stuff now ends up being about cosying up with family life and ignoring the outside world, I don't know. Maybe I'll eventually wish this album was darker. I was arguing against someone (can't remember who) about the artwork not matching the songs, and although I can make it match the songs if I use words like "inadvertent", "symbolic" and "subtle", I sort of understand the complaint.
The Dutch minister of Foreign Affairs, who is about to buy 37 Joint Strike Fighters for this small country, is pretty active on the social media, and yesterday he posted an Eddie Vedder song on his Facebook wall, telling his followers how much he likes it. It then struck me that I could not really counter this with some new anti war song or something. I replied anyway, of course, with Sirens and some more PJ/EV content, and decided not to pollute that thread with politics... Other people did. It's a strange world we live in.
groetjes,
Mirella
what song?
Also, if you had posted No More you would have lost the argument so maybe it's better you said nothing
Oh, and to those who compare fans before and after there were message boards: do not forget we always had usenet, and alt.music.pearl-jam used to be pretty active, with lots of long posts.
ABNorman wrote:
A new album by Pearl Jam is like a comfy jumper. I know it's going to fit nicely, though it may have an ugly design I don't like, and others might find it a bit silly, and it's not quite the same as the hand-knitted jumpers mum used to make at Christmas. And sometimes, there'll be a little detail that I really like.
As long as there's reindeer on it, you are a member of the Jamily
When somethin's plain, I wanna put a little reindeer on it.
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
Noaheb wrote:We would have ruined every part of that and every other great PJ album no doubt...
I think that's nonsense.
i don't. Well, ruined may be too strong a word but I think a lot of people consistently underestimate the way the mass psychology of groups can impact the individual preferences and perceptions within them. Corduroy suddenly doesn't suck, but any little part of a song that someone might have had a problem with that was glossed over or relegated to an afterthought is suddenly hammered home ad infinitum and impacts in subtle (or in some cases not so subtle) ways your perceptions of the song--especially during that early period where you're first trying to decide for yourself what you think about them.
And yes yes, I know that somehow every poster here is immune to these effects and that the normal ways human beings process information and develop opinions about things somehow doesn't apply to the people of RM.
Do you like the new stuff so much because you are indeed immune to the effects of the infamous overwhelming negativity of this board or because of some contrarian reaction to it?
I like the new stuff because I think they're good songs.
Having said that, I'm not immune to the effects of the context in which I develop my opinions. No one is. It's not like this stuff is a brick wall you just smack into and your opinion is immediately changed. But certainly I am more inclined to second guess some things if there is a broad backlash against something. On the positive side I may very well have stuck with Sirens because of the positive comments.
My point is that the reactions (positive or negative) will shape how you come to think about these songs in subtle ways. If you're not sure how you feel about something excessive discussion of its strengths or weaknesses is likely to shape how you perceive it. And if it is music or art that takes you some time to get a handle on the these conversations will have a greater impact on you. But this is impacting all of us to a greater or lesser degree. The stronger your immediate reaction to something the less prominent this may be. If I was here for Riot Act or Binaural I think I would have been influenced more because I wasn't nearly as sure about how I felt about those albums.
Another positive example--the very positive reaction Getaway has gotten (quite possibly at the bottom of the new songs for me--FD excluded) has probably either kept me more open minded about the song or, with parts I'm iffy about, pushed me over into the 'it's good' camp. Not that I sat down and said 'RM likes this so it must be good and i'll like it too.' It's more subtle than that. I am not even aware that it's happening (well I probably am after the fact, since i'm talking about it but only because I spend time thinking about thinking)
Again, it's subtle. I am having such a positive reaction to these songs because I really like them. But I may like two of them even more because of the board reaction. Since I am inclined to like them a negative reaction may not make me like them less, but a positive reaction may make me like them more (see, perhaps, getaway and sirens). If I was inclined to be skeptical of them a positive reaction might not mean much (it might alienate me further, but a negative reaction will activate all sorts of confirmation biases and harden inchoate opinions prematurely--before I have a chance to really decide this for myself.
This is not the same thing as being overtly influenced by a discussion (everyone loves in the moonlight so maybe I should check it out again) or by specific people. Badmusic doesn't like pearl jam anymore so what he thinks about the songs is largely irrelevant in my own assessment. If chud just posts these songs suck or Verb To Trust dismisses the entire record without hearing it (even though he is positive he'll go into an album he's written off with an open mind) then their thoughts will be irrelevant to me. That's posting as posturing, and it can be funny, or annoying, or ignored,but it doesn't have an impact (it might if I didn't know the background) But if someone like Kevin Davis or you or DcT or Platy or Lament or Juvenal or Iceagecoming or Thejambi or McP --people who usually post interesting and thoughtful things or whose tastes often mirror my own (sorry to the many people I left off that list--I gotta stop naming people at some point) I am likely to pay close attention and go back and consciously revisit how I hear certain things. My thoughts may change or they may not change, but I'm still ALLOWING myself to be influenced in a specific way. But that's different than the subtle stuff described above. That can't be controlled. It's a background process that impacts everyone.
I hope that makes sense. I don't do my best thinking with a fussy baby in my lap
That's a whole different thing than "We would have ruined every part of [Vitalogy] and every other great PJ album no doubt...". My point is just that these things may be happening but the truth is you don't know for sure that it's happening or happening in a way that is significant enough, yet it's going to be assumed that it is a) happening and b) happening only in a negative way.
I'm happy I was listed both with the irrelevant trolls and the interesting posters (but I think for the latter you just thought you were talking to spenno instead).
I thought I was responding to Harmless. You're often one of the better posters to read but your opinions on new pearl jam are fairly irrelevant to me since you've basically abandoned them.
I definitely think they do happen, though.
There is also the culture of cynical destruction that pervades the internet and (at times) RM, but that's a different issue.
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
From the "Drowned in Sound review":
‘Yellow Moon’
Quite an atmospheric track, and features some great guitar playing from Mike McCready. It feels like it’s trying to be a bit more epic than it’s perhaps capable of, but it’s definitely a massive step-up from the previous two songs. “One life, one grave”; Eddie at his least cheerful or his most philosophical?
‘Future Days’
We’re at the end already. This comes off a bit like the band’s attempt at ‘Love Reign O’er Me’ at first, largely thanks to a sweeping piano intro. It ends up being a bit lower key than that though. There are no drums, but there is some nice violin playing. A nice way to end the album, and the best ballad-like track on the record into the bargain.
For anyone (like me, and Stip?) interested in this album's themes coming together, it's interesting that "Future Days", using the end-times language that it does, follows "Yellow Moon" with that line "One life, one grave." It's almost as if the last track is a kind of afterlife.
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
Does anyone know which of the final few songs are longer ones?
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
Also, remember when that photo was posted of Mike (?) in the recording studio, with a big Kraftwerk album cover in the foreground. The DiS review also mentions "Pendulum" having a "Krauktrokian vibe". Maybe that's the song they were recording at the time.
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
Yeah I'm hoping MFS, Pendulum and Infallible kick my ass.
I'm just hoping that I'm pleasantly surprised by FD and that SBM doesn't embarrass me. But I've probably got over the biggest shock of the album in Sirens. Who'd've thought *that* would be the biggest headfuck of the album?
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
harmless wrote:Yeah I'm hoping MFS, Pendulum, Infallible and Yellow Moon kick my ass.
FTFY.
Forgot that one. Still plenty of ear-candy material.
RisingTides wrote:There is more kindness on the internet than we would care to admit to ourselves. Sometimes we are so afraid of falling victim to a ruse, we miss out on actual opportunities.
that's the one song I'm coming into with specific expectations for something awesome. I hope it doesn't let me down
It sounds like something that I should like. I'm hoping it doesn't fall flat for me. But I'm being cautious with my excitement, im worried about the piano intro someone mentioned, the lyrics and eds voice. In my head I've been thinking he'll sound like long nights, but I don't know why, one of the reviews even mentioned falsetto.
Forgot that one. Still plenty of ear-candy material.