Transgender Rights

[simple schoolboy]

This is true, but this is a problem that should be solved by training medical professionals about the issues of trans people and not by legislation banning the use of approved medication/procedures administered to a willing child with parental approval by an experienced physician.

What does approval have to do with anything? These drugs are all being used off label, aren't they? There can't ethically be RCTs for these treatments, so its unlikely any of this will ever be properly "approved".

[B]

This is true, but this is a problem that should be solved by training medical professionals about the issues of trans people and not by legislation banning the use of approved medication/procedures administered to a willing child with parental approval by an experienced physician.

What does approval have to do with anything? These drugs are all being used off label, aren't they? There can't ethically be RCTs for these treatments, so its unlikely any of this will ever be properly "approved".

I can't get behind the use of drugs without safety data.

[simple schoolboy]

This is true, but this is a problem that should be solved by training medical professionals about the issues of trans people and not by legislation banning the use of approved medication/procedures administered to a willing child with parental approval by an experienced physician.

What does approval have to do with anything? These drugs are all being used off label, aren't they? There can't ethically be RCTs for these treatments, so its unlikely any of this will ever be properly "approved".

I can't get behind the use of drugs without safety data.

There seem to be a good number of trans activists who declare that they'd rather have bird bones than suffer dysphoria and reject medical "gatekeeping" that sufferers of almost any other malady must deal with (especially in countries with govt provided healthcare).

They accept they must see a physician to get hormones or surgery, but suggestions that social transition should be tried for a certain amount of time before other interventions is somehow hateful. It also seems like 99% of trans activists are transwomen. Transmen apparently have yet to imbibe in the self suriety that only comes with male privilege.

[B]

Transmen apparently have yet to imbibe in the self suriety that only comes with male privilege.

[Bammer]

Jesus, B_i, whatever happened to a concise point?

...

I've kind of taken a stance on this like abortion. Conservatives are bent of fixing these few boogieman examples of treatment gone ary, and they're crushing the rights of broad swaths of an already marginalized population to do it.

How's this for a concise point, B? You're wrong.

[B]

[Bammer]

I don’t know where to begin with that video. Is the host supposed to be funny?

The sports policies don’t read “anti” to me. But maybe that’s just me.

The part about an opposing coach questioning a player’s gender and subsequently requiring a test (in Idaho) ... now that’s pretty fucked up.

The rest of the story really rang hollow with me. Grasping at straws to make the “this is anti trans” argument.

Any person should have the same rights ... to vote, to get an education, etc. I am all in on the “born as male is unfair advantage to compete against female” train, though. Look at Bruce Jenner. Guy is a fucking male Olympian. What if he changed sexual identity in his 20’s? I know that’s an extreme example, but still.

Anyway, easy solution ... again: One team, everyone tries out for the same team. Best ones regardless of gender make the team. If there is no evidence that any person can be automatically dropped into one or the other category (male or female), as the host so spectacularly failed at making the point whole trying to be funny, then maybe we shouldn’t have two categories of teams (male and female), either. Or fuck it maybe let’s create a third team.

[JuanHamm]

I don’t know where to begin with that video. Is the host supposed to be funny?

I've not watched the video, but Samantha Bee is one of the least funny people on the planet. Just a black hole of comedy.

[B]

Any person should have the same rights ... to vote, to get an education, etc. I am all in on the “born as male is unfair advantage to compete against female” train, though. Look at Bruce Jenner. Guy is a fucking male Olympian. What if he changed sexual identity in his 20’s? I know that’s an extreme example, but still.

So, a 45-year-old ex-Olympian transitioned, so teens that want to play a sport can't? Is there any example of a trans girl dominating her sport and taking scholarships from cis girls? The legislators passing these laws couldn't find one.

Do we anticipate a boy that is unable to dominate his sport, but is so competitive, that he's going to transition and live as a girl in order to make it to the top of a woman's team? The human rainbow in limitless, so I guess I can't claim that will never happen, but if you could find 2 examples of that in the entire Western world, I'd be impressed.

We're talking about either pre-pubescent kids or early-pubescent kids, most likely taking blockers to try and pass as their chosen gender. Being part of a team is supposed to be important in the development of teens, and we're going to eliminate that opportunity for the entirety of a heavily marginalized group over fears that a hyper-masculine, competitive boy might game the system by becoming a woman?

Classic conservative case of fixing a non-problem by fucking people who are different from them.

[Bi_3]

Any person should have the same rights ... to vote, to get an education, etc. I am all in on the “born as male is unfair advantage to compete against female” train, though. Look at Bruce Jenner. Guy is a fucking male Olympian. What if he changed sexual identity in his 20’s? I know that’s an extreme example, but still.

So, a 45-year-old ex-Olympian transitioned, so teens that want to play a sport can't? Is there any example of a trans girl dominating her sport and taking scholarships from cis girls? The legislators passing these laws couldn't find one.

Do we anticipate a boy that is unable to dominate his sport, but is so competitive, that he's going to transition and live as a girl in order to make it to the top of a woman's team? The human rainbow in limitless, so I guess I can't claim that will never happen, but if you could find 2 examples of that in the entire Western world, I'd be impressed.

We're talking about either pre-pubescent kids or early-pubescent kids, most likely taking blockers to try and pass as their chosen gender. Being part of a team is supposed to be important in the development of teens, and we're going to eliminate that opportunity for the entirety of a heavily marginalized group over fears that a hyper-masculine, competitive boy might game the system by becoming a woman?

Classic conservative case of fixing a non-problem by fucking people who are different from them.

The classic conservative case would be it's none of the government business who plays in what. But we are in the clown world phase of the culture war.


Also, fucking people different from you is often a recommendation for overcoming prejudice.

[Bammer]

B, disagreeing with you on this topic does not make me a “conservative.”

I subscribe to no political ideology. Ain’t no republican and sure as fuck ain’t no democrat either.

[B]

The classic conservative case would be it's none of the government business who plays in what. But we are in the clown world phase of the culture war.

I've heard that, but I've never witnessed this from the Republican party.

Also, fucking people different from you is often a recommendation for overcoming prejudice.

[surfndestroy]

I don’t know where to begin with that video. Is the host supposed to be funny?

The sports policies don’t read “anti” to me. But maybe that’s just me.

The part about an opposing coach questioning a player’s gender and subsequently requiring a test (in Idaho) ... now that’s pretty fucked up.

The rest of the story really rang hollow with me. Grasping at straws to make the “this is anti trans” argument.

Any person should have the same rights ... to vote, to get an education, etc. I am all in on the “born as male is unfair advantage to compete against female” train, though. Look at Bruce Jenner. Guy is a fucking male Olympian. What if he changed sexual identity in his 20’s? I know that’s an extreme example, but still.

Anyway, easy solution ... again: One team, everyone tries out for the same team. Best ones regardless of gender make the team. If there is no evidence that any person can be automatically dropped into one or the other category (male or female), as the host so spectacularly failed at making the point whole trying to be funny, then maybe we shouldn’t have two categories of teams (male and female), either. Or fuck it maybe let’s create a third team.

Rec leagues should be co-ed. I think any sort of tiered league should be co-ed until 12, and then by birth sex. The rec league option is there for everyone.

[verb_to_trust]

Why can't we just have men's women's and trans sports? Everyone wins.

[B]

[Bi_3]

[B]

He is, admittedly, difficult to listen to, but everything in that video hits me as a great way of thinking.

[Bi_3]

He is, admittedly, difficult to listen to, but everything in that video hits me as a great way of thinking.

That was on the front page of reddit this morning, by pure coincidence, I didn't go digging that up.

I did sit through the first few of those you posted but it's just too much snarky and false equivalence. I havent watched this one but I assume he ties not being 100% on board with fringe trans rights back to slavery at some point?

[Bammer]

He’s not wrong but the problem is they won’t answer your call or your email because they don’t give a fuck about you.

[JuanHamm]

He is, admittedly, difficult to listen to, but everything in that video hits me as a great way of thinking.

That was on the front page of reddit this morning, by pure coincidence, I didn't go digging that up.

I did sit through the first few of those you posted but it's just too much snarky and false equivalence. I havent watched this one but I assume he ties not being 100% on board with fringe trans rights back to slavery at some point?

This is the problem with all progressive politics. You're either on board 100% or you're a literal Nazi.