Song of the Moment: Getaway

[harmless]

If there's less of a priority to record now than there was, if "the live show" is a much larger priority and they only want to shit out a quick album every four or five years from now on and spend the rest of their time with their families, why don't they just tell us? There's been an increasing amount of spin from the 10C about how apparently full of fire they are, and it just hasn't been backed up by productivity for a long time. If they want to chill out, go on a hiatus or whatever, I've got a feeling we'd all forgive them, even applaud them. It's just that keeping quiet about changing circumstances in order to trot out the same marketing memes feels like deception.

Basically this all comes down to harmless wanting to chat with PJ.

Pretty much yes.

[Tuolumne]

If there's less of a priority to record now than there was, if "the live show" is a much larger priority and they only want to shit out a quick album every four or five years from now on and spend the rest of their time with their families, why don't they just tell us? There's been an increasing amount of spin from the 10C about how apparently full of fire they are, and it just hasn't been backed up by productivity for a long time. If they want to chill out, go on a hiatus or whatever, I've got a feeling we'd all forgive them, even applaud them. It's just that keeping quiet about changing circumstances in order to trot out the same marketing memes feels like deception.

This is silly, they don't owe us an explanation.

[harmless]

If there's less of a priority to record now than there was, if "the live show" is a much larger priority and they only want to shit out a quick album every four or five years from now on and spend the rest of their time with their families, why don't they just tell us? There's been an increasing amount of spin from the 10C about how apparently full of fire they are, and it just hasn't been backed up by productivity for a long time. If they want to chill out, go on a hiatus or whatever, I've got a feeling we'd all forgive them, even applaud them. It's just that keeping quiet about changing circumstances in order to trot out the same marketing memes feels like deception.

This is silly, they don't owe us an explanation.

Who's talking about "owing" anyone anything? I've said it would be nice, that's all. They don't owe us any music, but we've paid for it for 23 years.

[harmless]

Marketing the fact that you're passionate and excited about making music, and then secretly not really giving much of a shit, is disingenuous marketing.

[stupidmop]

Well around backspacer ed said he was thinking about live shows and setlists when choosing songs for the album, he literally told us flat out what his priorities were with the album.

I think if they didn't want to make albums they wouldn't. They were barely talking to eachother in the mid 90s and still dragged themselves together to put shit out.

[harmless]

Well around backspacer ed said he was thinking about live shows and setlists when choosing songs for the album, he literally told us flat out what his priorities were with the album.

I think if they didn't want to make albums they wouldn't. They were barely talking to eachother in the mid 90s and still dragged themselves together to put shit out.

Is that right? I didn't know that.

[stupidmop]

Well around backspacer ed said he was thinking about live shows and setlists when choosing songs for the album, he literally told us flat out what his priorities were with the album.

I think if they didn't want to make albums they wouldn't. They were barely talking to eachother in the mid 90s and still dragged themselves together to put shit out.

Is that right? I didn't know that.

I may have exaggerated that but I was refering to that whole 'Jeff didn't know they were making no code until a week into it' thing.

[harmless]

Well around backspacer ed said he was thinking about live shows and setlists when choosing songs for the album, he literally told us flat out what his priorities were with the album.

I think if they didn't want to make albums they wouldn't. They were barely talking to eachother in the mid 90s and still dragged themselves together to put shit out.

Is that right? I didn't know that.

I may have exaggerated that but I was refering to that whole 'Jeff didn't know they were making no code until a week into it' thing.

Ah, OK.

[evenslow]

Ed has said one of the meanings for "No Code" is Do Not Resuscitate. From 94-96 they could have very conceivably called it a day.

[bodysnatcher]

Well around backspacer ed said he was thinking about live shows and setlists when choosing songs for the album, he literally told us flat out what his priorities were with the album.

I think if they didn't want to make albums they wouldn't. They were barely talking to eachother in the mid 90s and still dragged themselves together to put shit out.

so, basically, Lost Dogs 2 will be the greatest album of their modern career

[stupidmop]

Well around backspacer ed said he was thinking about live shows and setlists when choosing songs for the album, he literally told us flat out what his priorities were with the album.

I think if they didn't want to make albums they wouldn't. They were barely talking to eachother in the mid 90s and still dragged themselves together to put shit out.

so, basically, Lost Dogs 2 will be the greatest album of their modern career

It's a peal rossibility.

[Mine]

All of it. I'm trying to like the music while still thinking BO'B's a dick. I think that he just knows what the general public feeling about PJ is, however superficial and casual it sounds, i.e. "Eddie Vedder's band." Nobody in the general public gives much of a shit about the other musicians, so neither does BO'B.

I'm right where you are. I think BoB is a massive tool. But, I do see him for what he is, a really good industry rock producer who knows how to get a powerful sound. Plus, he's the only one who can truly handle EdVed as a vocalist and get the best out of him. I think your Steve Albini and Jack Endinos of the world are great for "cred" but it doesn't amount much to bringing in an audience. Next album I wish he's just come on in the end and do the vocals, and use another producer to help sort through the ideas and general direction.

His interview reallt grate on me, you get the sense he doesn't really have appreciation for the creative process. What it takes to imagine a song out of thin air and how to keep artistic integrity. He almost seems to look down on that, so the artistry of an album seems to depend on how much the band stands up to him. The right balance could yield amazing results, though.

Yep. I guess the thing is, why do they need to "bring in an audience" at this point? You might disagree, but a lot of people see what they're doing currently as ungratefully shitting on the audience they've already developed. They've got any right in the world to do that, but I think some people are feeling abandoned, and quite rightly. Their recent aesthetic choices don't reflect the band they became; they reflect the band that they moved away from. It is what it is. But the recent sales pitches and commercial efforts... it just all seems grating because nobody really believes Pearl Jam are in any way struggling for money. They don't need the money, so this change of aesthetic must amount to a change in values... I'm hoping not but eh, it's getting increasingly hard to believe and some people stopped believing a long time ago.

or having to do all the promotional shit themselves that someone else used to do for them.

They never did this much, though, or the same things. There's an obvious reach for a different, or wider, demographic.

I think it may have something to do with having kids. I guess they crave more money for their children rather then for themselves at this point.

That's plausible, yup. I've always wished they were just more open about this change of direction. They've spoken about it, but only vagueness like "I use to think that lyrics had to be complex but now I think they can be simple." So what, Ed? They can be simple, but they can't be noticeably *worse* or you're going to lose people... I'm not making demands but it would've been nice if they'd been honest about this deliberate change of direction on the band's part.

I know you aren't making demands and you're perfectly right. I don't think they ever put that much thought in any direction ever. Certainly not as a band. Ed is the kind of lyricist/songwriter who's output will largely mirror his state of mind. You can tell that even by looking at pics. His facial expressions in pics since the early 90's changed exactly like his lyrics and music did. I know perfectly how weird this statement sounds but a pic of him with a child in the thread about his recent fund raiser gig made me think of this. Every other aspect is a minor influence on his writing IMO.
I also don't think No Code wasn't purposely not catchy because is still relatively catchy and very melodic (if the definition of melody hasn't changed drastically in the last week). What I do believe it was, starting from Vitalogy, a refuse of writing anthemic like Stone's songs. If you look at Ed's songs from Porch on you won't find such a drastic change as you would by comparing Stone's songs to No Code or Vitalogy. I think it was Stone who called No Code Ed's solo record at the time and he pretty much hated Vitalogy so it's safe to assume that "they" had no direction or intent whatsoever. Yield i think is the only album that actually had a clear purpose (multi platinum/ we still got it you Ten fans alienated by No Code) - that actually failed. I think they have just been doing whatever the hell each of them felt like since. They've probably decided they weren't going to be a difficult/tortured band any more after they recovered from Rosklide but i would be surprised if they went further than that consciously. I think s/t is an indication of the lack of intent as i think after it was done they realised they maybe needed someone with a more mainstream ear like O'Brien with their music at this point.

[Mine]

Ed has said one of the meanings for "No Code" is Do Not Resuscitate. From 94-96 they could have very conceivably called it a day.

They probably would if Stone's and Jeff's side projects went anywhere. I think they even admitted it themselves.

[Mine]

Well around backspacer ed said he was thinking about live shows and setlists when choosing songs for the album, he literally told us flat out what his priorities were with the album.

I think if they didn't want to make albums they wouldn't. They were barely talking to eachother in the mid 90s and still dragged themselves together to put shit out.

Is that right? I didn't know that.

I may have exaggerated that but I was refering to that whole 'Jeff didn't know they were making no code until a week into it' thing.

Ah, OK.

Didn't Mike also say he didn't remember recording either Vitalogy or No Code?

[harmless]

Ed has said one of the meanings for "No Code" is Do Not Resuscitate. From 94-96 they could have very conceivably called it a day.

They probably would if Stone's and Jeff's side projects went anywhere. I think they even admitted it themselves.

When did they say this?

[Mine]

Ed has said one of the meanings for "No Code" is Do Not Resuscitate. From 94-96 they could have very conceivably called it a day.

They probably would if Stone's and Jeff's side projects went anywhere. I think they even admitted it themselves.

When did they say this?

I wish i could remember. It must have been during the Yield promotion. This old interviews used to po up here every once in a while. An interesting double interview with Stone and Ed from guitar world i believe had them "fighting" over No Code. Stone essentially said No Code was less successful because they deliberately written it so to which Ed responded that maybe it was less successful because they didn't whore their asses trough promotion. This guys used to say all sorts of shit in interviews. An interview of Stone's is quoted on Dave A's wikipedia entry when he blames Ed and Jeff for firing Dave A.

[harmless]

Ed has said one of the meanings for "No Code" is Do Not Resuscitate. From 94-96 they could have very conceivably called it a day.

They probably would if Stone's and Jeff's side projects went anywhere. I think they even admitted it themselves.

When did they say this?

I wish i could remember. It must have been during the Yield promotion. This old interviews used to po up here every once in a while. An interesting double interview with Stone and Ed from guitar world i believe had them "fighting" over No Code. Stone essentially said No Code was less successful because they deliberately written it so to which Ed responded that maybe it was less successful because they didn't whore their asses trough promotion. This guys used to say all sorts of shit in interviews. An interview of Stone's is quoted on Dave A's wikipedia entry when he blames Ed and Jeff for firing Dave A.

[Mine]

Ed has said one of the meanings for "No Code" is Do Not Resuscitate. From 94-96 they could have very conceivably called it a day.

They probably would if Stone's and Jeff's side projects went anywhere. I think they even admitted it themselves.

When did they say this?

I wish i could remember. It must have been during the Yield promotion. This old interviews used to po up here every once in a while. An interesting double interview with Stone and Ed from guitar world i believe had them "fighting" over No Code. Stone essentially said No Code was less successful because they deliberately written it so to which Ed responded that maybe it was less successful because they didn't whore their asses trough promotion. This guys used to say all sorts of shit in interviews. An interview of Stone's is quoted on Dave A's wikipedia entry when he blames Ed and Jeff for firing Dave A.

Look there's even a thread about Jeff contemplating leaving PJ http://archive.theskyiscrape.com/viewto ... 772b4bdf3a

[stip]

Marketing the fact that you're passionate and excited about making music, and then secretly not really giving much of a shit, is disingenuous marketing.

this stretch between backspacer and lightning bolt was simultaneously the longest stretch without an album while quite probably the single most productive stretch of music production by the band in total. Someone would have to check that but we got like

2-3 jeff albums
2-3 stone albums
various mike projects
matt did a soundgarden album and tour (AND DRUMGASAM!)
Ed did the uke songs album
two box set retrospectives, the pearl jam 20 movie, soundtrack, and book
Small tours basically ever year
Ed solo tours
Probably other shit I'm missing. But the sheer volume of music produced is not insubstantial. So I still wonder (and wonder if we'll ever get the answer) how much of the delay was just a scheduling problem as much as anything else.

Although this then begs the question 'why wasn't pearl jam' the prioritiy. Was it because they just didn't care, or because they didn't feel like they could step on people's side projects, or was it working around the soundgarden album, the soundgarden tour, eddie's arm injury, rescheduling eddie's tour, etc. Big events that couldn't easily be ignored.


It would be great if someone could put together a timeline of all that shit.

[harmless]

2-3 jeff albums
2-3 stone albums
various mike projects
matt did a soundgarden album and tour (AND DRUMGASAM!)
Ed did the uke songs album
two box set retrospectives, the pearl jam 20 movie, soundtrack, and book
Small tours basically ever year
Ed solo tours
Probably other shit I'm missing. But the sheer volume of music produced is not insubstantial. So I still wonder (and wonder if we'll ever get the answer) how much of the delay was just a scheduling problem as much as anything else.

Although this then begs the question 'why wasn't pearl jam' the prioritiy. Was it because they just didn't care, or because they didn't feel like they could step on people's side projects, or was it working around the soundgarden album, the soundgarden tour, eddie's arm injury, rescheduling eddie's tour, etc. Big events that couldn't easily be ignored.


It would be great if someone could put together a timeline of all that shit.

Yeah, I don't consider anything but the stuff in red to be anything to do with Pearl Jam. At the time, the message I was picking up loud and clear was that they'd rather do anything but be Pearl Jam.