Lightning Bolt: the official album thread

[Jorge]

[stupidmop]

Theres pictures of the magazine!

[harmless]

Ed's always merged simple sounding choruses with more complex verses. Wordy, intelligent parts are not reserved for choruses because it's kind of a no brainer to have the easier to sing along to part as the chorus. If you look at I'm still alive in isolation, or even Mind your Manners or She's a lightnint bolt, you can think it's simple and unintelligent. Context is what matters and gives these lyrics their meaning.

For years, it was playing word games and expressing those emotions, but doing it in such a way that was cryptic and where Mark Arm from Mudhoney would still have some modicum of respect for me. But nowadays, it's more like sitting down and writing a song, and whatever comes out, comes out.

Sounds to me like he's tiptoeing around the fact that he's gotten comfortable with the idea of dumbing down the lyrics.

Yeh, well, these lyrics are certainly not dumbed down, right?

"Nothing man, ohh nothing man... could've been something... nothing man"

"I'd rather be, I'd rather be, I'd rather be with an animal"

"drop the leash, drop the leash, get out of my fucking face"

to me, this doesn't seem too different from...

"She's a lightning bolt, she's your rock and roll, she's true."

...except on the surface there's "what seems to be" a positive vibe conveyed. People here hate when Ed does that sort of thing. It's not the lyrics. It's the underlying vibe of the lyrics.

The irony, of course, is the entire context within the song's lyrics are practically indecipherable and LB (the song) could actually have deep negative connotations at it's heart.

This might be IlluminEddie's one good post ever.

It's a good post and I agree with it entirely. But I disagree that LB doesn't have a shade of "a song about a surfboard" in it, just as "Oceans" did way back in the Ten days. Lightning Bolt is the name of a surf apparel company and I find it difficult to believe that that wasn't part of the inspiration, even if it was just the beginning of that inspiration. It doesn't cheapen the song; if anything, it's something slightly amusing which makes the song a little less reverent, which is a good thing, and even better because it's not over the top.

[warehouse]

how long did that take u?

[harmless]

I love how the band goes in unconventional directions in certain songs leaked so far.

I don't think they're unconventional at all, even if they're new for PJ. That's not necessarily a bad thing, it's just a thing.

[Release_Me]

Ed's always merged simple sounding choruses with more complex verses. Wordy, intelligent parts are not reserved for choruses because it's kind of a no brainer to have the easier to sing along to part as the chorus. If you look at I'm still alive in isolation, or even Mind your Manners or She's a lightnint bolt, you can think it's simple and unintelligent. Context is what matters and gives these lyrics their meaning.

For years, it was playing word games and expressing those emotions, but doing it in such a way that was cryptic and where Mark Arm from Mudhoney would still have some modicum of respect for me. But nowadays, it's more like sitting down and writing a song, and whatever comes out, comes out.

Sounds to me like he's tiptoeing around the fact that he's gotten comfortable with the idea of dumbing down the lyrics.

Yeh, well, these lyrics are certainly not dumbed down, right?

"Nothing man, ohh nothing man... could've been something... nothing man"

"I'd rather be, I'd rather be, I'd rather be with an animal"

"drop the leash, drop the leash, get out of my fucking face"

to me, this doesn't seem too different from...

"She's a lightning bolt, she's your rock and roll, she's true."

...except on the surface there's "what seems to be" a positive vibe conveyed. People here hate when Ed does that sort of thing. It's not the lyrics. It's the underlying vibe of the lyrics.

The irony, of course, is the entire context within the song's lyrics are practically indecipherable and LB (the song) could actually have deep negative connotations at it's heart.

This might be IlluminEddie's one good post ever.

Seconded. Not that I think he doesn't post well but just that I agree with what he's saying here. It's the vibe, not the lyrics. Someone talked about feeling embarrassed singing along to Life Wasted. That's fine if you don't like the song, but if it's just the lyrics in the chrous, I don't get how they are anymore embarassing than some of PJ's most well known choruses. It's not even my favourite off S/T by any stretch.

[harmless]

Good work.

[VinylGuy]

Nice interview....loved that Mark Arm comment.

[harmless]

Ed's always merged simple sounding choruses with more complex verses. Wordy, intelligent parts are not reserved for choruses because it's kind of a no brainer to have the easier to sing along to part as the chorus. If you look at I'm still alive in isolation, or even Mind your Manners or She's a lightnint bolt, you can think it's simple and unintelligent. Context is what matters and gives these lyrics their meaning.

For years, it was playing word games and expressing those emotions, but doing it in such a way that was cryptic and where Mark Arm from Mudhoney would still have some modicum of respect for me. But nowadays, it's more like sitting down and writing a song, and whatever comes out, comes out.

Sounds to me like he's tiptoeing around the fact that he's gotten comfortable with the idea of dumbing down the lyrics.

Yeh, well, these lyrics are certainly not dumbed down, right?

"Nothing man, ohh nothing man... could've been something... nothing man"

"I'd rather be, I'd rather be, I'd rather be with an animal"

"drop the leash, drop the leash, get out of my fucking face"

to me, this doesn't seem too different from...

"She's a lightning bolt, she's your rock and roll, she's true."

...except on the surface there's "what seems to be" a positive vibe conveyed. People here hate when Ed does that sort of thing. It's not the lyrics. It's the underlying vibe of the lyrics.

The irony, of course, is the entire context within the song's lyrics are practically indecipherable and LB (the song) could actually have deep negative connotations at it's heart.

This might be IlluminEddie's one good post ever.

Seconded. Not that I think he doesn't post well but just that I agree with what he's saying here. It's the vibe, not the lyrics. Someone talked about feeling embarrassed singing along to Life Wasted. That's fine if you don't like the song, but if it's just the lyrics in the chrous, I don't get how they are anymore embarassing than some of PJ's most well known choruses. It's not even my favourite off S/T by any stretch.

It was me who said that. I also get embarrassed singing Lightning Boooooooooowlt because it's silly. I don't mind singing the rest of the song, however. Just to put this into some perspective, though, I'm also kind of embarrassed to sing the Alive chorus now. It doesn't mean I don't like the song. Life Wasted wasn't that great but most of it was better than the chorus. It's an age-old PJ issue; they often write great songs with less than great choruses.

[Release_Me]

Choruses need to be easy to sing along to in order to really work. I don't remember hearing many intelligent or wordy choruses from this band or any other. You can say what you want to say in the rest of the song but the chorus is more about the delivery and the melody rather than the actual words. I love all their simple choruses with simple lyrics and they belong to some of their best songs. Best even by RM tastes. Reading into them in isolation is missing the point.

[harmless]

"Easy to sing" doesn't have to equal bad.

[harmless]

But yeah, your overall point isn't one I'm disagreeing with. I forgive the LB chorus because the surrounding song is good. I just think it would be great if the chorus was also great. A better "simple chorus" would be one that has meaning, rather than just describing a bright yellow zigzag.

[warehouse]

was plat involved in the april fools "prank" too?

[harmless]

"I'm still alive" means something emotionally potent, and is a great summation of the verses. Same with "I'd rather be with an animal." They're both defiant, balls-to-the-wall statements. "She's a lightning bolt" isn't really, and neither does it really drag you into the verses to find the depth therein. The problem is that on a casual listen, "Lightning Bolt!" is the kind of chorus that'll put someone off from delving deeper, and it's had that effect already for a lot of people on this forum. When Eddie sang "I'm still alive", we wanted to know why. When Eddie sang "I'd rather be with an animal", we wanted to know why.

[igotworms]

Ed's always merged simple sounding choruses with more complex verses. Wordy, intelligent parts are not reserved for choruses because it's kind of a no brainer to have the easier to sing along to part as the chorus. If you look at I'm still alive in isolation, or even Mind your Manners or She's a lightnint bolt, you can think it's simple and unintelligent. Context is what matters and gives these lyrics their meaning.

For years, it was playing word games and expressing those emotions, but doing it in such a way that was cryptic and where Mark Arm from Mudhoney would still have some modicum of respect for me. But nowadays, it's more like sitting down and writing a song, and whatever comes out, comes out.

Sounds to me like he's tiptoeing around the fact that he's gotten comfortable with the idea of dumbing down the lyrics.

Yeh, well, these lyrics are certainly not dumbed down, right?

"Nothing man, ohh nothing man... could've been something... nothing man"

"I'd rather be, I'd rather be, I'd rather be with an animal"

"drop the leash, drop the leash, get out of my fucking face"

to me, this doesn't seem too different from...

"She's a lightning bolt, she's your rock and roll, she's true."

...except on the surface there's "what seems to be" a positive vibe conveyed. People here hate when Ed does that sort of thing. It's not the lyrics. It's the underlying vibe of the lyrics.

The irony, of course, is the entire context within the song's lyrics are practically indecipherable and LB (the song) could actually have deep negative connotations at it's heart.

This might be IlluminEddie's one good post ever.

Seconded. Not that I think he doesn't post well but just that I agree with what he's saying here. It's the vibe, not the lyrics. Someone talked about feeling embarrassed singing along to Life Wasted. That's fine if you don't like the song, but if it's just the lyrics in the chrous, I don't get how they are anymore embarassing than some of PJ's most well known choruses. It's not even my favourite off S/T by any stretch.

It was me who said that. I also get embarrassed singing Lightning Boooooooooowlt because it's silly. I don't mind singing the rest of the song, however. Just to put this into some perspective, though, I'm also kind of embarrassed to sing the Alive chorus now. It doesn't mean I don't like the song. Life Wasted wasn't that great but most of it was better than the chorus. It's an age-old PJ issue; they often write great songs with less than great choruses.

Was only thinking precisely this myself the other day. I think they used to be very good at it (Ten and Vs are packed with great ones), but they have a tendency to write better bridges than choruses these days.

[Release_Me]

I feel like this 'return' to catchy choruses and shit is more a regression than anything. She's your lightning bolt, your rock and roll, shes true...

They went backwards all the way to ten and then busted through it to the otherside. We're a fraction away from 'what the funk is up' people.

I agree. It's not a return. It's something new. Lately they've just wanted to write music which is not intellectually engaging. Lightning Bolt's chorus, however, isn't the best example of that, because "I'm still alive" is no more intelligent than that. Neither is "I'd rather be with an animal." I do think there's more going on in the verses of Lightning Bolt; if there's anything lyrically interesting in that song, it's there.

Completely disagree with it not being a return and something new, or any sort of regression. I've already said why it's a return but it doesn't seem to be registering. What can you do.

As far as the lyrics are concerned, you can take any line out of context and make it look like it's unintelligent. Ed's always merged simple sounding choruses with more complex verses. Wordy, intelligent parts are not reserved for choruses because it's kind of a no brainer to have the easier to sing along to part as the chorus. If you look at I'm still alive in isolation, or even Mind your Manners or She's a lightnint bolt, you can think it's simple and unintelligent. Context is what matters and gives these lyrics their meaning.

I think the reasons you have your opinion are registering. We just don't really agree.

'Big Wave' and 'Supersonic' were pretty much the first songs this band had ever written that I thought were absolute junk, and that's because they didn't have any of this interesting context you speak of. I agree, you can't just take a chorus out of isolation; but if you pick a song's lyrics apart and they seem phoned-in all the way through, you're going to call it a regression even if "directness" was the stated aim. I like The Fixer for *almost* achieving what it set out to do, but what it sets out to do is absolutely nothing like what "Alive" set out to do. The Fixer remains simplistic the entire way through, even with its one or two nods to graves and zombies.

I felt that way about one song on almost every album, not just those two. Bugs, Pilate, Lukin, I'm Open, Help Help, etc. I think those are pretty much the junk on those albums. That's not PJ being direct or a real example of the directness which I was talking about, it's just them trying something which doesn't work because of silliness or inappropriateness, in my opinion. I still enjoy them when in the mood. The Fixer and Backspacer the album itself are trying for something completely different and you can't blame them for not achieving what other songs do when they are not even trying to achieve those things.

I don't even know where to start with this. Not one of those "junk" songs you've listed is actually junk; they're songs you don't like, but the evidence they are objectively "difficult" or "junk" (and especially that they're the same songs Ed is referring to when he talks about weaker middle-period songs) just isn't there. Also, I'm not really blaming any songs for not achieving anything that other songs have. I only compared The Fixer and Alive because you did and I was responding to you. We were talking about songs with "hooks" and according to you, both songs have "hooks". So are you now admitting that The Fixer is trying to do something brand-new? Because I too have acknowledged that, and I still think it ultimately fails to do what it sets out to do, even on its own terms. That's a subjective judgement but it's pretty unfairly reductive to say that I just want it to give me the same tingles as "Alive".

I used the words 'I think' to imply that it's just my opinion. What's junk to me could be gold for someone else. My point was that they tend to put a stinker on almost every album. I've never seen any album of theirs as flawless. And I don't think Ed is referring to any of these tracks in his interview. I think it was a general comment about the songwriting in those albums. He didn't say they are inferior. I just used the quote to say that they did indeed try to make things cryptic intentionally. And that that's probably why I don't like those albums and why you do. Different strokes.

The Fixer and Alive make use of the same elements (great melody and chorus) to come up with two totally contrasting songs in mood. I never said BS was Pearl Jam trying to rewrite Ten. Just that they used some of those same elements and used them to write hookier songs but with a completely different mood for the most part. It is something new in that respect. I just don't think the focus on melody and hooks is anything new. If The Fixer doesn't suceed for you, it doesn't. Nothing I can do to change that. I agree that Alive tries to do something that The Fixer doesn't and vice versa.

[harmless]

Ed's always merged simple sounding choruses with more complex verses. Wordy, intelligent parts are not reserved for choruses because it's kind of a no brainer to have the easier to sing along to part as the chorus. If you look at I'm still alive in isolation, or even Mind your Manners or She's a lightnint bolt, you can think it's simple and unintelligent. Context is what matters and gives these lyrics their meaning.

For years, it was playing word games and expressing those emotions, but doing it in such a way that was cryptic and where Mark Arm from Mudhoney would still have some modicum of respect for me. But nowadays, it's more like sitting down and writing a song, and whatever comes out, comes out.

Sounds to me like he's tiptoeing around the fact that he's gotten comfortable with the idea of dumbing down the lyrics.

Yeh, well, these lyrics are certainly not dumbed down, right?

"Nothing man, ohh nothing man... could've been something... nothing man"

"I'd rather be, I'd rather be, I'd rather be with an animal"

"drop the leash, drop the leash, get out of my fucking face"

to me, this doesn't seem too different from...

"She's a lightning bolt, she's your rock and roll, she's true."

...except on the surface there's "what seems to be" a positive vibe conveyed. People here hate when Ed does that sort of thing. It's not the lyrics. It's the underlying vibe of the lyrics.

The irony, of course, is the entire context within the song's lyrics are practically indecipherable and LB (the song) could actually have deep negative connotations at it's heart.

This might be IlluminEddie's one good post ever.

Seconded. Not that I think he doesn't post well but just that I agree with what he's saying here. It's the vibe, not the lyrics. Someone talked about feeling embarrassed singing along to Life Wasted. That's fine if you don't like the song, but if it's just the lyrics in the chrous, I don't get how they are anymore embarassing than some of PJ's most well known choruses. It's not even my favourite off S/T by any stretch.

It was me who said that. I also get embarrassed singing Lightning Boooooooooowlt because it's silly. I don't mind singing the rest of the song, however. Just to put this into some perspective, though, I'm also kind of embarrassed to sing the Alive chorus now. It doesn't mean I don't like the song. Life Wasted wasn't that great but most of it was better than the chorus. It's an age-old PJ issue; they often write great songs with less than great choruses.

Was only thinking precisely this myself the other day. I think they used to be very good at it (Ten and Vs are packed with great ones), but they have a tendency to write better bridges than choruses these days.

Totally. S/T had some great bridges.

[IlluminEddie]

"I'm still alive" means something emotionally potent, and is a great summation of the verses. Same with "I'd rather be with an animal." They're both defiant, balls-to-the-wall statements. "She's a lightning bolt" isn't really, and neither does it really drag you into the verses to find the depth therein. The problem is that on a casual listen, "Lightning Bolt!" is the kind of chorus that'll put someone off from delving deeper, and it's had that effect already for a lot of people on this forum. When Eddie sang "I'm still alive", we wanted to know why. When Eddie sang "I'd rather be with an animal", we wanted to know why.

You don't think you've looked for 'the depth therein' with LB? Seriously? You don't think (you, for example) wanted to know why he says "She's a lightning bolt"?

Me - I definitely have looked at this song deep within. I'm curious of what it means. I don't know who "she" is. It could be Mother Nature, a supreme being, a wave, his wife, his daughter... I have no clue.

But, I have a guess. And to me, I digged through the words and guessed much more on this song than on - Animal, for example.

[Release_Me]

"I'm still alive" means something emotionally potent, and is a great summation of the verses. Same with "I'd rather be with an animal." They're both defiant, balls-to-the-wall statements. "She's a lightning bolt" isn't really, and neither does it really drag you into the verses to find the depth therein. The problem is that on a casual listen, "Lightning Bolt!" is the kind of chorus that'll put someone off from delving deeper, and it's had that effect already for a lot of people on this forum. When Eddie sang "I'm still alive", we wanted to know why. When Eddie sang "I'd rather be with an animal", we wanted to know why.

All I can say is, I sure as hell want to know why this girl is a lightning bolt. And I did try to make sense of it in the context of the song. I can't say I've fully succeeded but I do believe it's an intentional self reference to Nothingman and to be taken as the flipside of that relationship. I wasn't thrown off from delving deeper because I know Ed too well. He juxtaposes happy sounding lines in these songs which are actually a bit screwed up.

[Birds in Hell]

That line from Ed in the interview is basically what I felt about the middle period albums. Making songs intentionally difficult. It only worked occasionally and the payoff wasn't what it should have been. I'm glad they're not doing it anymore. What comes out is what comes out.

Ok, if you say so I'm just not a fan of anything from that era. I appreciate what they tried, but I don't like it. The more direct they are in their songs, the more I feel like I can connect, in general. Also, being cryptic for the sake of it is different than just making a song which has many layers and takes multiple listens to sink in. I don't mind the latter. But I like my Pearl Jam when they wear their hearts on their sleeves.

PJ's highest quality stuff is found on the first three records.

Yes, I think BS is entirely successful in the band going back to some of their strengths. The difference is mainly in the mood of the album. They made it to reflect a time in their lives when they were happy and satisfied. The songs are much more direct and not shy of big choruses or the melodies which made me a fan in the first place. I don't see it as them treating me as a kid, it's them paying me back for sticking it through a period where I just barely hung on to them.

Very few hooks in the middle period for me(except Yield). S/T onwards, there are hooks aplenty.

I'm not a guitar player and riffs aren't a big deal for me. The hooks are the choruses which stick in my head and the vocal melodies which I want to sing along to. I find more of that on S/T than either of No Code, Binaural or Riot Act. And many more on BS and LB.

The middle period has very little in the way of hooks, except Yield. The melodies are not as memorable. There may be other things to recommend those albums but they are a very dry listen if you want hooks. BS is a celebratory record and was meant to be so. I don't see how that makes it inferior.

Bugs, Pilate, Lukin, I'm Open, Help Help, etc. I think those are pretty much the junk on those albums.

Choruses need to be easy to sing along to in order to really work.

The eventual reveal of Release_Me as a satirical second account is going to be wonderful.