Eddie Vedder - Earthling

[Jaeti]

Just listened again. Perfectly pleasant song. I really like Ed's voice everywhere aside from the chorus, which I think is a letdown both lyrically and vocally. I can see the argument that it's suited to what surrounds it, but, meh.

Per the ongoing discussion, no, if those verses weren't sung by Ed I don't think I'd ever listen to this again. But since they are, I'm sure I'll grow to like this even a bit more. He's just one of those singers.

If there are just a handful of songs on the record that are clearly stronger than this, that'll be a pretty great outcome.

[tree_]

If we went out fishing in a new watering hole, we're risking not catching anything at all. If we go back to where we always catch something good chances are we're eating tonight. Quality of company and weather conditions, if the bugs are biting, if we have any bug spray, are all very important, and sometimes they seem to be all that matter, even if we're not catching any fish. But ultimately, in the end, all that matters is the nourishment your body gets from the food.

[Jorge]

What

[tree_]

People enjoy Ed's company, even if they're not catching anything and they forgot bug spray.

[Anders]

When a song comes up on my Apple Music Station, I don’t think it should matter to me who the artist is, only if it’s a good song or not.

this sounds like a relatively joyless way to listen to music

No, it’s fantastic. Both new and old songs is generally music I love. Much better than the radio.

Although I do listen more to my own playlists. But there are only songs I already know there.

Every year I make a list of a 1000+ songs from artists I already know and new artists (to me) that I’ve seen recommended. Then I work on narrowing it down to a separate smaller list of songs I really like.

[Kevin Davis]

The line of thinking that births posts like his isn't that subjective factors should never influence your opinion of the product. It's that the influence of those subjective factors should not be unlimited.

I understand how it comes across when fans are seemingly incapable of criticizing anything an artist does, even things that seem completely unremarkable or actively bad. From the outside looking in, it looks like these people are just lacking in judgment, and can't separate their feelings from the art. But I think oftentimes the reaction they achive through that lens of hypersensitive subjectivity is far more authentic than the more considered, analytical reaction people seem determined to insist they ought to have instead. Furthermore, I think occasions where people truly think something is awful but insist on claiming to like it nonetheless, simply because they couldn't bear not to, are extremely rare. Most likely, the music just triggers different sensitivities in them that it triggers in you; for them, they may respond to the positive, sentimental feelings they get from hearing Eddie Vedder's voice, or the general enthusiasm and excitement that comes with being a fan of something, which are feelings they like; you may be immune to these feelings, or maybe the song doesn't provoke these feelings in you (and maybe music doesn't ever provoke these feelings in you), but you respond instead to the musical construction and determine you don't like it. It's not a subjective vs. objective thing; it's subjective thing A vs. subjective thing B, and a belief that one of those things signifies a more credible response, which ultimately is just another subjective thing.

I don't know -- really, the "would you still like this" exercise more often than not just seems like an attempt to cut someone down to size, because we all know there's no way to know the answer to that question, not only because it's hypothetical but because (in this case) it creates a false dichotomy between "Eddie Vedder" and "other performers." I don't know if I'd like this song just as much if it was performed by someone else, because it would all be dependent on what that performer brought to it -- almost certainly, there are artists who could render this song in ways that I'd enjoy more, and others that could render it in ways I'd enjoy less. There always seems to be this implication that this theoretical "other performer" would just render the song "as is," and we would hear the song completely independently of any affectations and biases and be able to evaluate entirely on "its own merits," and what I'm saying is that this does not exist. I may not have the same emotional connection to that other performer, but there could be any number of other subjective factors that would shift my reaction in different directions; maybe that other performance would be so strong that it would provoke a new enthusiasm that would be greater than the sort of lingering affection I have for Eddie Vedder's voice. I don't know. I think the question is usually just condescension masquerading as high-minded discernment. And I'm sure I've asked the question myself so I should probably just shut up.

[Jorge]

Whenever that question has come up before it does get categorized as condescension, but I don't see it. To me it's an interesting exercise. Everything else being the same, would I enjoy this song if I wasn't a fan of the artist? What exactly am I responding to here? It may be impossible to answer concretely, as you said, but I find it an interesting thing to examine.

[tree_]

I like what you said about subjective A and B. That's true. As I said, people like to hang out with Ed, but that's different than enjoying the music on its own merits. The question has a legitimate purpose and it need not be condescending.

[Jorge]

It's interesting to me that it triggers such a defensive response. Examining my own aesthetic inclinations is one of my favorite things to do!

[tree_]

i'm with you jorge

[VinylGuy]

i havent read any kind of defensive response here.

[Jorge]

Well, Joe and Kev both called the question condescending (or "usually" condescending), and when I went looking for that McP post I was amused to find that when I asked a similar question about "Mind Your Manners" the response wasn't "yes" or "no" but an overwhelming "HOW DARE YOU"

It's an argument I've seen several times here and elsewhere, people usually feel strongly about it

[VinylGuy]

Maybe in the past, thats a question that can touch anyone´s buttons. And yes, im sure sometimes its asked in a very condescending way.

But i dont see it in this thread no.

[tree_]

It's like determining a friend or family member's value as a human being after taking your relationship out of the equation. It's really hard to do, but an interesting and potentially beneficial (detrimental?) exercise.

[tragabigzanda]

pearl jam sucks now

[Kevin Davis]

It's interesting to me that it triggers such a defensive response. Examining my own aesthetic inclinations is one of my favorite things to do!

Mine too! Honest!

But more often than not, it's not a self-directed examination; it's someone else questioning the authenticity of your feelings, in a way that seems to seek primarily to undermine the credibility of your conclusions. That may not be the intention, but I can't imagine it's hard to imagine why people read it that way. "I think this song is boring, everyone else seems to agree it's boring -- are you sure the only reason you like it isn't because you're just having a knee-jerk emotional reaction to this other thing that is only semi-connected to the actual thing we're talking about?" I have made the critical error of using this line of reasoning with my wife when discussing family issues. It has never not provoked defensiveness.

Anyway, I agree it can be a fun exercise in regards to music. I enjoy those kinds of self-analyses and often find the more ridiculous answers to be the most interesting. I don't mean to sound defensive (nothing to defend really, no one asked me this question); I just enjoy unpacking the logic and limitations to these kinds of thought experiments.

[epilogue]

Well said, KD.

[McParadigm]

You guys really took the long way on the freeway here

[bodysnatcher]

I suppose we can say that never has an Eddie vedder song sparked this level of conversation

[McParadigm]

I suppose we can say that never has an Eddie vedder song sparked this level of conversation

We literally go through this every time he puts out something subpar