Crucify the Insincere: A Smashing Pumpkins Thread

[Ello Sailor]

What I wouldn't do to be a fly in the wall when Billy and Flood decided on that final tracklist. So many bangers needing to be cut. Un-fucking-real.

[VinylGuy]

I think of the reasons Billy´s output since Zeitgeist has been super weird is the fact that he hasnt worked with a big producer.

Rick Rubin did a good job with him on Ogilala and Shiny Vol 1 in terms of his singing, production choices and cutting the songs.

[Kevin Davis]

'To Forgive' has aged remarkably well. I also love the inclusion of 'Thirty-three' and 'We Only Come Out...'

I was not expecting 'Marquis', though. A solid track, but perhaps you're hearing something I'm not.

The Pumpkins on the Mellon Collie tour in '96 (post-Jimmy firing, unfortunately) was my first concert (at least my first one attended sans parental accompaniment), and if I had to reduce that experience to a single memory, the one moment that weirdly prevails in my mind over all others is Billy (in his ZERO shirt) and D'Arcy, each with a light on them, harmonizing together on the chorus of "To Forgive." Most of that show was slashing and visceral, but that moment -- from my prime vantage point in the upper bowl -- just felt so private, sweet, and personal. Which is weird because, at the time, I didn't really have a special fondness for that song, and almost certainly would have chosen a more rocking song in its place if the setlist had been mine to make. Glad it wasn't.

"Marquis," I don't know -- it's just always hit the right spot for me. I think it's a great example of how Billy can use venom and crunch to disguise what is at heart a really poppy melody, which intertwines with the riff in a way that is really pleasing to me. I like "Mouths of Babes" and "Pennies" a lot too, though.

'Set the Ray to Jerry' is cleaning up this awards season.

For me, it's Jimmy's tasteful, jazzy drumming that really pushes that song over the edge.

[VinylGuy]

who was drumming with them at that moment? Matt Walker?

[Kevin Davis]

who was drumming with them at that moment? Matt Walker?

Yep! He did a great job, and my adrenaline was so off the charts that I couldn't have cared less that it wasn't Jimmy; only in hindsight does it feel like a bit of a missed opportunity. Jimmy Flemion from the Frogs was on keyboards, stepping in for Melvoin after he OD'ed.

I did get a chance to see Jimmy some years later when Billy was touring with Zwan, so I have this weird experience of having seen all four original Pumpkins, but never as a collective unit.

Does any other band have a lineup history that has seen the original members appearing in such varied combinations at different times? It seems like they've all fallen in and out of favor over the years, and with Billy being the constant, there has been at least one point where one of the other three was out of the band while the other two were in (I think).

[VinylGuy]

I never saw them with Jimmy. I saw them with the kid in 2010 i think? and with Brad Wilk in 2014? or 2015?

Wilk was awesome. He brought a very metalic presence. The kid was fine, he did what he could....but damn i wanna see Jimmy and James.

And i dont think there is a band with these many changes and comebacks no.

Also they are playing this weekend too!!

[surfndestroy]

I never saw them with Jimmy. I saw them with the kid in 2010 i think? and with Brad Wilk in 2014? or 2015?

Wilk was awesome. He brought a very metalic presence. The kid was fine, he did what he could....but damn i wanna see Jimmy and James.

And i dont think there is a band with these many changes and comebacks no.

Also they are playing this weekend too!!

I saw them a couple of years ago with James and I think Jimmy. James wasn't used much and was kind of on stage just so Billy could say he had James on stage and that this was the real SP.

[VinylGuy]

I would love to see them with the tour they were doing on Oh So Bright. They had a cool setlist and setup.

Yeah, i dont really know what James does or not even back in the day. Listening to the albums i thought he play the solos and then a friend saw a live show and tell me ¨the chinese guy doesnt do much¨

[liebzz]

Machina / The Machines of God

In this initial listen, the first thing I noticed was Chamberlin. He’s back and for me this made an immediate impact. In fact, I quite enjoyed this album, which I feel like doesn’t necessarily bring all the way back the fuzzy guitars of the first few albums, but does bring back much of the swagger that Chamberlin brings to the group. I get that this was conceived as a concept record but for me it didn’t play like one, really more like any other Pumpkins album, except that the heavier aspects of their work seemed to be the primary focus, though maybe through a more electronic sounding lense than Mellon Collie or the earlier albums. I took a look back to see if I could name drop some songs but for me, other than Glass and the Ghost Children, which I just frankly wasn’t crazy about, the rest are consistently very good, and just don’t think they need name dropping. This one is still long but for me was a less challenging listen than Adore, perhaps because this particular sound never really ended up gnawing at me the way Adore eventually did toward the end. From the feedback thus far, I imagine this could easily be in the unpopular music opinions thread, but on what is probably a superficial first listen, I prefer this one. Time could and further listening could change that, but this is a much better album than maybe I was expecting after Adore.

[VinylGuy]

Machina is the album i listened the least and the difficult one for me. When it came out i was kinda bummed....The Everlasting Gaze was awesome, the video was super cool, Melissa was there and Billy saying you know im not dead!! sounded like the band was with high energy and willing to go with a different era.

But with time that kinda changed, and the album was super dense and difficult to me. There are still a lot of great songs, specially Heavy Metal Machine.

[Ello Sailor]

'Stand Inside Your Love' is perhaps my fav. single of all time, by any band. Hook it up to my veins.

[VinylGuy]

Yeah, its ok. Try Try Try is another one that could have been huge...the Machina II version is better i think.

[Kevin Davis]

From the feedback thus far, I imagine this could easily be in the unpopular music opinions thread, but on what is probably a superficial first listen, I prefer this one.

I do too, though not by a large margin and I still don't prefer either of them to anything from '91-'96. On the whole, I find the heavy rock songs on Machina to be the least successful; the guitars that on previous records had a fuzzy but still heavy psychedelic swirl have an industrial sheen here that feels more reminiscent of NIN, Marilyn Manson, etc., than it does of vintage SP, which is less my thing in general, and I definitely think Billy's delicate voice sometimes struggles to hold its own against it. However, the ballads and mid-tempo rock songs here are among my favorite in their catalog: "Stand Inside Your Love," "Try Try Try," "Wound," etc. And those comprise a big percentage of the record.

[Kevin Davis]

'Stand Inside Your Love' is perhaps my fav. single of all time, by any band. Hook it up to my veins.

Yeah, definitely a top 5-10 SP song for me.

[Ello Sailor]

Yeah, its ok.

See, that's the exact opposite of what I said.

[VinylGuy]

Wound is super cool.

[VinylGuy]

Yeah, its ok.

See, that's the exact opposite of what I said.

You got super emotional sorry. For me its an ok song. Not even a top 20 with this band.

[liebzz]

From the feedback thus far, I imagine this could easily be in the unpopular music opinions thread, but on what is probably a superficial first listen, I prefer this one.

I do too, though not by a large margin and I still don't prefer either of them to anything from '91-'96. On the whole, I find the heavy rock songs on Machina to be the least successful; the guitars that on previous records had a fuzzy but still heavy psychedelic swirl have an industrial sheen here that feels more reminiscent of NIN, Marilyn Manson, etc., than it does of vintage SP, which is less my thing in general, and I definitely think Billy's delicate voice sometimes struggles to hold its own against it. However, the ballads and mid-tempo rock songs here are among my favorite in their catalog: "Stand Inside Your Love," "Try Try Try," "Wound," etc. And those comprise a big percentage of the record.

This is really good insight.

[Wendy Carlos's Twin]

who was drumming with them at that moment? Matt Walker?

Jimmy Flemion from the Frogs was on keyboards, stepping in for Melvoin after he OD'ed.

It was Dennis on keyboards. Jimmy was a crew member and would pick dancers for "1979".

[Ello Sailor]

Don't try to use 'Wound' to get out of this, Veg.